Polls in this case are bullshit. When we took a poll for the restaurants, we had more votes placed than people actually going. You and I both know that some of the wise asses on the boards cast their vote in that poll just to throw things off.

And secondly, vote or no vote, if someone is paying for something, with their hard earned money, then who is anyone to tell them where they have to sleep and what and where they have to eat?

Yes, we try to come to an amicable agreement so that we can reap the benefit of spending as much time together as we can, for that is why we have these get togethers. But if someone is going to be totally uncomfortable while they are in their room, or totally uncomfortable with what they are eating, well then why should they have to be made to feel that way? They should speak up!

I've stated my feelings about this. I didn't book a smoking room, so I'm not personally affected by this change in policy. But I totally understand how others can feel pissed off about what the hotel did.

If someone is totally uncomfortable with staying at The Hilton Garden Inn and decides that they want to go to another hotel, then that is there perrogative. Just like it is yours to stay in the Hilton Garden Inn if everyone else decides not to.

If I were affected by this change in policy, then my next choice would be the Wyndham/Sheraton, for the reasons that I stated in my other post.


Don Cardi

Ok, I didn't realize there was a problem with more votes than there should have been in the polls, so I'll go first (not that I'm picky on where we end up, but rather just to vote)and I'll post openly my vote/s.

1. I'll go with the other Hilton (the one Becky is checking)
2. I'll vote for the Italian restaurant


TIS

We haven't heard from Plaw yet. Is he out of town?

I believe he lost his internet access for a few days.

Not necessarily. In the case of the restaurants, there were around 5-6 to choose from. In this case it would be pretty clear cut...Do you want to switch hotels/Do you want to stay where we are.

As for the wiseasses who voted and were not part of the group...you do have a point there. But I guess you could make a plea to ONLY vote if you're attending the convention.

Nothing to lose, and if you decided the results were bullshit you could always toss them anyway...it wouldn't be any more/less of a waste of time than this bantering has been.

Although I'd hate to abruptly end the show for JustLou and others who may be getting a real hoot over it.

So anyway, poll or no poll, majority or no majority, amicable or non-amicable...whatever you say. I'm staying where I am.

Apple

I'm with TIS. Other Hilton, Mosholu for drinks, La Veranda for dinner.

Hey, I wonder if you can smoke on the Mosholu, since there's open-air seating??

Actually....YES!!!!

We had dinner there less than a week after the smoking ban took effect. I have to say it was a wonderful thing .

Chan's is a relatively small restaurant. No matter where you sit, you're really not too far from the bar and 'former' smoking sections. So even in non-smoking, my daughter & I would end up to inhaling it.

Thanks for the reminder!!

Apple

:) ...Ok. I'll let everyone get back on topic.

Smoking bans in restaurants are fine with me. In fact I welcome them. People shouldn't have to smell or inhale smoke while they are trying to taste their food.

But by the same token if one wishes to open up a "Smokers Only" restaurant with their own money, well they should have that right also. But that's for another topic and for another debate.

The issue here is that a hotel decided to implement a total smoking ban in the privacy of one's own room, after initially offering an option at the time of booking. And that's what has some people in an uproar. And I can't say that they are wrong.


Don Cardi

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*sb's post has been edited by Don Cardi*


Don Cardi

You have a good point there, too.

However, since the plans have already been made and this smoking ban was implemented by the HOTEL and is the fault of NO ONE in the group...isn't it true that some are trying to tell others to change their plans, cancel their reservations, make new reservations and spend more of their 'hard-earned' money just so THEY can have a cigarette in their room?

It goes both ways, y'know.

Apple

Not at all. Who specifically told another here that they should cancel their reservations and switch to another hotel? Who specifiaclly told another specifically to do so?


All I saw was that several were annoyed and stated that they would rather go to antoher hotel than stay in one where they cannot smoke.

No one specifically told anyone else that they should cancel their reservations.

Were you told that you should cancel your reservation and change hotels? And if so, who told you that you should do that?


Don Cardi

Both DC & Apple make very good points. Both are true.
I can understand the reservations are made, and some want to change due to this non-smoking law (including myself). Why should everyone else be forced to change. Makes sense!

Then, on the other hand, I have been "saving" for my vaction, literally putting my money aside, and it would be nice, for what I have to pay to get there and back and rooms (in NYC as well as Philly), expenses in general, etc. to get what I want. Then again, I'd feel selfish insisting on it.

I do hesitate for a change of hotel, in the fact that I don't want everyone to have to change their plans, when this price is good, Becky did the work getting it for us. But short of either keeping what we got, splitting up, staying in different hotels, I see no happy medium, thus making me more likely than not, to not make waves. But then that's just me.

I'll repeat....No matter what, I'm still looking forward to my trip. Nothing will damper my enthusiasm. No matter where we stay.

TIS

Don Cardi, again you miss my point.

I don't think ANYBODY here is specifically telling ANYBODY what to do or where to stay.

However, the people in the group who want to smoke in their rooms...and that's really all it comes down to...smoking in your room...are asking others to consider switching hotels so that they can do so.

We still have the Gangster BB Convention. We still have the weekend. We still have the Moshulu, and the dinners planned for Friday & Saturday night.

Nothing has changed here except for the ability to smoke in one's room. That is all this past 24 hours has been riding on. A cigarette in a hotel room.

Nobody needs to TELL anyone what to do because everyone's going in circles saying it should be a 'group' decision.

Yet, we have not yet made a 'group' decision. So far, we are all, each of us, just letting everyone know what WE would like to do.

Now that it's gone this far, to quote TIS...a decision HAS to be made.

So for Christ Sake...let's make one.

Apple

Now that my migraine is easing up a little I have to laugh at all of this BS once again.

A few days ago we had a hotel a place to have appitizers at and take pictures and a place to have dinner Saturday night. What do we have now?

A hotel that some people don't want to stay at and a place to eat Saturday night.

Ok, first decision that has to be made is do we want to stay in the immedeate area of downtown Philly and have walking access to go basically anywhere we want to go within the city, or do we want to stay on the outskirts of the city and have to take our cars, find and pay for parking, or take cabs back and forth whenever we want to go into and around the city? Remember something, many of us are staying there from friday till sunday.

A simple " I'd like to stay within the city"

or a

"I don't want to stay in the city"

will do.

Let's make that decision first and then take it from there.


Don Cardi

I just read your first sentence and cracked up. Ha ha so true. JL pass the popcorn!!!

TIS

I think the idea of people staying at 2 different hotels is rediculus(sp). The whole point of the BB weekend is spending quality time together enjoying each other's company. how can you do that seperated? I mean how many hours are you spending in the room anyways?

This really is a shame...

The whole idea of the weekend is to be together, presumably in the same hotel where we can stay up late and not worry about anyone having to drive or anything other than stumbling back to their rooms.

Presumably every smoker going is used to not being able to smoke in bars any more. Granted, it'd be nice after it's been banned in NY, NJ, CA, etc, but now (presumably) most bars and all restaurants in Philly won't allow it come later this Summer (if the bill turns to law).

I would PREFER that we all stay put according to plan, but understand if some don't want to. However, I will have a problem if enough people switch hotels that those staying won't get the group rate that Becky & Miggy worked so hard for us to get.

As a smoker, I have NO problem staying in a smoke-free hotel. And I certainly don't want to have to pay twice as much for another hotel simply so I don't have to go outside for a cigarette.

Listen - It totally SUCKS for smokers these days, it just gets worse and worse. I hate it - and have really strong opinions about it - but I'm getting used to it. If I just can't resist the urge, a cracked window and a possible fine is fine with me.

But if some want to switch -- and it doesn't effect our group rate -- that's fine with me. If everyone switches, that's fine, too. I really don't care at this point, but just wanted to enter my opinion. :p

We have people here with migraines and headaches. After another round of this I might become a crack addict.

Why don't you just take up smoking instead - it'd make this much easier! :p

Tell me about it by the time this is said and done I'll start smoking :rolleyes:

Geoff,

As far as I'm concerned, that's fine. We'll deal with it. Let's just end it. I've never really had a headache before in my life....but this may give me my first. I'll withdraw my original vote and stay put. I seldom stay in my room anyway. I'll just hangout in front of the hotel with you guys. Do ya think that'd be too shady???? Ha ha

FOR THE SMOKERS:

I just called the hotel directly (not the 800 #) and spoke with Mary who was very nice. She did confirm that as of 7/1 it IS a non smoking hotel, no matter when you made your reservations.

She said there is no outdoor patio, but there is no problem going outside to have a smoke...just not inside. She also said there are other facilities (restaurants, etc) in the immediate area,so you're not just isolated to outside the hotel with nowhere else to walk to).

TIS

Why don't you just take up smoking instead - it'd make this much easier! :p [/b][/quote]It'll be easier cause I'll be dead. I don't think smoking and asthma are a good mix.

But then again, isn't Patrick coming with his weed?

Tell me about it by the time this is said and done I'll start smoking :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]Ha ha ha...Mig you're cracking me up today!!!!


TIS

Gotta lighten up the mood around here

Personally, I think it's rather rude that the smokers should be treated as second-class citizens here. It's not like it's only one or two. It's TIS, SC, JG, Lori, Plaw, Smitty and DC that I can think of. I would say that we may be in the majority here, or at least half of us. Why shouldn't we get to enjoy ourselves if we want to? Why should we be made to feel guilty about it?? Why should we be made to feel as if we're ruining everyone's plans and acting like spoiled children?? Because we have this dirty, nasty habit??

Not that I'm speaking for TIS, but she made a good point. She's been saving for this trip and should be able to smoke in the privacy of her own room if she wants. I feel the same way. I have no problem with the smoking ban in restaurants. However, if I want to have a cigarette in the privacy of my hotel room, that I paid for, and I'm not bothering anyone, then I have every right to do so.

I feel for the smokers because I feel they are right. They're spending their hard earned money the same as I am and should be able to enjoy themselves in their rooms. I just hope a decision can be made. I'm alright with switching hotels as long as it's not that much more. Like TIS I have been saving my pennies for months for this and spending a great deal more for the room may put me over budget.

Didn't SC post awhile back that he had quit smoking? Tsk, tsk.

Its not just smoking in your room thats at issue here. I like to smoke while I drink, and the hotel put their lounge in the non-smoking area as well. Now, we could always go to a different lounge in a different hotel (or a bar) while we drink but I don't wanna have to travel when I'm on my way to feeling NIIIIIIICE.

Whats with the argument that arrangements have already been made? Well, if I would have known that the hotel would one-sidedly change their rules (and not honor a promise) I would have never agreed to stay there in the first place.

I'm glad that some are finding amusement in all this discussion. I only wonder when they'll actually show up for one of these get-togethers themselves.

SC,
Ya have to laugh otherwise you will get a ulser. Yesterday I was so upset about all this bullshit stressing about it I was having chest pains. So now I just have to laugh.

How could we have known when we made the reservations that the State/City Government would do that?