Bring Don Santino Corleone Cardi with you incase things go bad :p

Plaw question for you:

What do you think about Poker Philosophy? For example: people pick up cards very slow, no high lifting..look quick...and don't make any facial impressions.

But why can't you pick up cards, give a big smile and put them down. I think it doesn't make any difference. It doesn't tell your opponent anything.

You're speaking now of "tells", I think, the unconscious mannerisms which players have of giving things away when they look at their cards.

My advice? Try to avoid them yourself. It doesn't matter how you do things, as long as you try to do them the same way all of the time.

One of my weaknesses, though, has been in picking them up in other players.

Okay, I learned a few things last night playing with Plaw online...

1 - Play conservatively
2 - So what if you have an Ace in the hole and nothing else
3 - If I have a pair of Queens, someone will have a pair of Kings

Aw shucks. It was my pleasure giving you the tips while we played.

We played in a few 10 man hold 'em tournaments first; entry fee of $660, winner gets $3000, 2nd place $1800, 3rd place $1200.

I finished second twice and third twice out of six tournaments, so I came out about $2000 ahead. JG took an o-fer.

Then we moved over to $20-40 seven card stud, where I won about $4000. JG lost about the same amount. :p

If the truth be told, however, JG was getting bad cards, in which case you're supposed to play tighter, not more loosely like he did. And he did suffer one or two really bad beats.

But I strongly suggested that he stay away from casinos for now.

Just to clarify for the others: we were betting with play money! (I least I hope so!! )

Yes, unfortunately it was only practice.

For anyone who has considered playing for real money on any of these on-line sites, I would advise quite strongly against it.

First of all, you don't know if you are playing against real people or a computer program designed for you to slowly but surely lose your money.

I have noticed, BTW, that the winning hands in these on-line games are generally a lot stronger proportionately than they are in real life, i.e. a lot more straights, flushes, full houses, etc. on a percentage basis than you would normally see in real life.

This makes it much harder to evaluate your hand.

For example, I've seen straights lose to flushes much more often on-line than I have in real life. In seven card stud, it seems that almost every time someone has three cards of the same suit showing, they have a flush.

You also seem to get a much higher percentage of "starting hands" than you normmally would (a pair, 3 card straight, 3 card flush, etc), which encourages more people to play each hand, so they lose their money faster.

Also, there is the danger of collusion.

While JG and I were playing last night, we were also communicating during the hand on Yahoo IM.

You can see the obvious danger in that in a real money game. Two or more people could be playing together and telling each other when to raise, when to fold, etc.

I've been on about 3 or 4 sites for poker and I've noticed as well that the hands are usually stronger. I would think that the computer program (whether the other players are computers or not) are designed to give decent/strong hands to almost everyone. If you can get 4 or 5 of the 8 people to have a "winnable hand" they are going to stay in longer (especially in regular poker) which means more money to the site.

I also think at least 1 person on those sites are a computer program, just to take money and make more than the 5% the house takes or however much that is.

edit: also when I was with plaw and jg that's now 3/8 of a table effectively playing as 1. Not only can you say when to raise etc.. you can also say I need a 2 of hearts for a straight flush and you have 2 other people who could have gotten it. So that wouldn't necessarily help you win but would definitly limit your losses.

Whether the conspiracy theories are correct, you also have to remember that you play a lot more hands online than you would during a live-table. Over a course of an hour, I don't know how many more hands you play - 50% more? 100% more? - but playing that many hands allows you to see that many more winning hands, really nice hands and passable hands alike.

At least twice as many hands per hour, probably more.

But that doesn't change the percentages.

I play a fairly conservative game, but I find that I consistently get a decent starting hand in 7 card stud a much, much higher percentage of the time than I do in real life.

I assume that everone else does, too, which leads to a much higher percentage of straights, flushes, etc. than you see in real life.

After 40+ years of poker playing, of this I am absolutely positive.

I've only played hold 'em with real money online. I rarely play since I can get my fix playing with my friends at least once a week. I play with very little money, so it's not like I'm winning big or losing big. I basically just keep playing with the same money I deposited. It goes up a little and down a little, but it is pretty constant over time. I just prefer to play with real money when I play online because playing with fake money is such bullshit. Chip stacks are so important in poker, and in practically every single fake money tourney I play online at PartyPoker, someone has 3-4 times the amount of chips as every other player at the table after the first hand because all the morons go all-in with absolutely nothing. Playing online with fake money is hardly even poker because you can't bluff people off hands. If a player put 15 chips in for the big blind, even if he has 3 high he's still going to call a 700 chip raise because he's not really losing anything. The only pure online game is Yahoo Pinochle. I prefer playing with friends or at a casino compared to online by leaps and bounds however. Even though I have no idea how to read other players, it is still more exciting when the person right next to you is putting you to the test compared to someone at another computer that is probably jerking off his dog at the same time he's playing.

What you say is true JB, but you just have to adapt your style to the game.

I find that after that first hand when the 3-4 idiots have gone all in with nothing, the remaining players usually play the game right, so to speak.

It depends....for example Everest Poker is a very good site and you don't play against machines. But when I'm entering a Casino I never play Video-poker games. I'm really careful with these things.

M.M. how do you know you aren't playing against machines?

This is for you Plawrence I am going a head and having a poker night at my house 6 guys are comming in which i will charge $40.00 buy in. which will give them $30.00 in chips and i will take $10.00 from each for setting it up and providing the drinks card ect. now there will also be rebuys at a mimnum of $20.00 my question is. how is the winner decided there is only going to be one and how should i end the game and also should i take a percent of the pot as well let me know thank you

Hey Plaw, what are you doing this weekend? Wanna hold up a poker game that I heard about?

j/k Intenzo.

Don Cardi

It depends....for example Everest Poker is a very good site and you don't play against machines. But when I'm entering a Casino I never play Video-poker games. I'm really careful with these things. [/b][/quote]You must be VERY careful playing poker for real money on-line. There are programs that many players use that reveal the other players cards to the program user.

Personally I would never gamble on line.


Don Cardi

Very funny if you are ever in Miami you have to look me up and we can get together and play

Ok Mang, chu ga a deal! If I eva near freedom town agan, I look chu up mang and we ge a gane going!


Don Cardi

First you have to tell me if this is going to be a tournament style game like you see on TV, or a "ring game" like I described in my first post.

As far as the "rake " goes, do you want to just cover your expenses (and how much do you expect your expenses to be?), or is this intended to be a money making enterprise for you?

I heard that video poker gave the best returns of all other casino games. And the video poker / slots by entrances and cashiers win a bit more often so people see/hear all the "winners".

well i want to make back what i spend on expenses witch is no more then 60.00 bucks the table and chips and playing cards i got for free. but its not a tournemnt. the players can rebuy chips if they want to. plus i want to get a feel for it also the guys i am hosting this for are really intrested and if all goes well it will become a weekly thing but yes i want to make some money out of it at least put 60.00 in get it back and make 60.00 as well something to that extent.

OK......

You're gonna play Hold 'Em right? Will it be No Limit, like on TV, or what is called a "structured" game, i.e. limits on the betting?

You're much better off with a structured game, since the players money will last longer.

If you play no limit, the whole evening could theoretically last only one hand.

Also, if six people are gonna bring $40 each ($240), and you want to take $60 for expenses and make a $60 profit, you'll be taking half the money at the table. Conceivably, at the end of the night, there will be no winners - everyone will have lost something. In fact, taking 50% of the money makes that almost a certainty, even if some of the players buy more chips.

Even if you were just taking out enough to cover your $60 in expenses, that's still a rather a high percentage of the total amount at the table to be removing from the game.

If you want this to become a regular game in which the players have fun and you make a profit, there have to be winners as well as losers.

Also, I'm not comfortable with your idea of having everyone buy-in for $40 and only giving them $30 in chips.

A steady rake of 10% of each pot like they do in the casinos. is a much better way to do it, because psychologically the players don't feel it (after all, after you've just won a pot you don't really care that 10% of it is missing) and also, the winners wind up paying more than the losers.

The danger, though, is that one pleyer goes on a hot streak early and cleans out everyone else long before you have the chance to get back your $60 in expenses, so you have to make sure that the stakes are low enough to ensure that the game lasts long enough.

With a $40 buy-in, you're gonna need to keep the betting levels at about 25 & 50 cents, believe it or not. Those stakes may be too low to keep everyone interested.

To reach your goals here, you need everyone to buy in for at least $80-100 or so, and then maybe have betting levels of $1-2.

To answer one of your earlier questions, BTW, the game ends when either everyone runs out of money except for one person, or at a certain time which you would pre-determine.

Then you cash in everyone's chips and they go home.

True and true.

The reason that video poker pays out a higher percentage than regular slot machines is because there is a strategy involved and decision making comes into play.

I don't, of course, play video poker myself, but I've glanced through a few books which outline strategy and claim that by playing "correctly" you can actually shift the odd to your favor.

ok i like your idea of 10% of each pot. and what do you think i should charge as the buy in and how manny chips should they get

If you're gonna have a rake of 10% of each pot then, as I said earlier, you give the players an amount in chips equal to the buy-in.

If you intend to cut $120 out of the game, then everyone is going to have to buy in for about $125, and I'd run a structured game with stakes of $1 and $2.

The only danger is that one or two players have big hot streaks at the beginning, clean everyone else out, and break up the game before you have a chance to get your $120.

That's why I suggest stakes of $1-2. Any higher, and people could get cleaned out too fast before you get your $120. Any lower, and it could take you forever to get your $120.

Casinos don't have that problem because they have people coming in and out of the game all the time. I've played in a casino for ten hours, and during the course of the time I was playing, I played with maybe 20 different people.

Your problem here is that you're trying to run a casino game without that advantage. For you to get your $120, you are going to need a very even distribution of players and winning hands.

If there is $750 in chips at the table, what you want at the end of the night is something like this, with players having approximately these amounts of chips at the end of the game:

Big Winner: $250
Second Winner: $200
1 break-even: $100
1 Big Loser: $0
1 Medium Loser: $55
1 Small Loser: $25

Your share from the rake: $120

Total: $750

Of course, if you keep taking 10% of each pot, and you get good distribution of winning hands among the players and the game lasts a long time, you have a chance to take out more than $120.

If a game like what I've described above lasts 10-12 hours and you get good distribution, at the end of the game the only winner will be the house (you).

Well let me say thank you for all the info you have given me you have been agreat help on monday i will let you know how it went i only have a pc at work but thank you agian.

wish me luck

Most of the time I play with people I know....but you are right when you say you play against unknown people. They can always run a program on the background which I don't see...

My pleasure.

Please let me know how it goes.

And good luck. I have a feeling you're gonna need it. :p

Most of the time I play with people I know....but you are right when you say you play against unknown people. They can always run a program on the background which I don't see... [/b][/quote]I see what you are saying, that's probably the only way to know for sure. Bots (programmed players that respond and act like a real person) have grown so much over the years that you could probably be in a room with 7 of them and not know fora while.