I wanted to know how a poker game is run. what i mean is lets say i wannted to start a poker game how does that work were does the money come from, how do i get money out of it and how do people win the money in the pot do i have to put lets say 200 bucks in a pot for the players and charge them 50 buks to play some one who knows what they are talking about please let me know.

In the casinos and poker clubs, in what is referred to as a "ring game" (don't ask me why) the players provide their own money. Depending on the game that's being played, they bet at various intervals and the winner gets the entire pot, minus the "rake" -- typically a 5-10% commission that the "house" takes from each pot, which covers refreshments, a dealer, and the house profit.

In a tournament like you see on TV, the players pay an entry fee, and are provided with tournament chips which have no value outside of the tournament.

The game proceeds as above, execpt for the 5-10% commission, and the winners divide the total amount paid in as entry fees, minus, again, a commission for the house, based on a pre-specified prize structure, i.e. so much to the winner, so much for second place, third place, etc. depending on the number of entrants.

Thanks but still a little confussed could you get in to more detail set an example for me.

What exactly are you confused about? What do you need an example of? If you understand how poker is played, you should understand what I wrote.

I'm happy to help you, since this is a subject about which I possess no small amount of knowledge, but I'm not sure what you want to know.

Maybe we should go down to Miami and "teach" him first hand, Plaw -- he could learn by example.

thanks guys i know what you mean now i did a little poker research and you guys are more then welcomed to come to miami any time

OK....but what are you thanking JG for?

Any more specific questions, feel free to ask.

Fine. I'll add my 2 cents... :rolleyes:

We used to have a friendly game almost every week or two, but alas it's been a while since some have moved/gotten married, etc. I miss it. But anyway, it was very small stakes -- nickel/dime/quarter with a $5 buy-in. Everyone would put in $5, and they'd get 5c/10c/25c chips. (If you ran out of chips, you could buy more - in fact, you were encouraged to! )

We didn't play Hold'em, though. It wasn't as popular back then as it is today. We played various 7-card games. The deal would rotate after each hand, and the dealer would pick the game. The dealer would also ante for everyone at the table to keep things easier.

Sometimes we'd play one of those games where the pot rides until there's a winner -- in those games one could easily double or triple -- or even more -- their initial investment. These weren't "poker" so much, tho - like "Acey-Deucey" where you bet whether your third card will come between your first two dealt cards. Everyone antes in this one. You win, you get the pot, you lose, you MATCH the pot! I've won big and lost big in this game, as the pot can get up there. It was up to $60 one time. One time I was dealt K-3 and lost bad cuz I got another King :rolleyes: The game continues until the deck runs out, or, there's no winner.

We rarely played 5-card draw games, but a dealer could call it. I prefer 7-card stud, or some wild-card variation of it. I REALLY want to play Hold'em though the next time we get a game together.

May i suggest that you play with free/play money at partypoker.com. You need to download the software. They have other games too.

Hey PLaw, I have a poker question for you. You'll probably think, "yea right", but this actually happened and I want to know if I was given the right answer. Probably the only sports-type question I'll ever ask.

Years ago, in my twenties, I had weekly poker games; penny ante stuff. If you won $25 that was a good night. :p

Anyway, we were playing 5 card draw poker. Myself and another person both got a Royal Flush believe it or not. We weren't sure who won so I called this guy that was into almost every sport and good at poker. He said that when that happens it goes by suit. If I remember correctly I had the RF in diamonds and the other person in spades, and he said spades got it. Also, does the same hold true to any flush or straight if the are exactly the same?

Geez, probably the only time in my life I'll have that problem to worry about.


TIS

To tell you the truth, in traditional poker, all suits are equal. If you and your friend both got a royal flush, technically you would both win (I guess you'd split the pot). In other games, like spades or hearts, suits matter in a hand. In poker, suits don't matter unless you have them for a flush.

Is that right? I could have sworn that suit did matter. So if in Vegas this happened in high stakes poker, they'd split the pot??? (granted this was far from a high stakes game though )


TIS

From what I've read, all suits are equal, and I believe that's correct. I merely made an assumption in saying the pot would be split. I imagine that's what would happen, but I'm not certain.

Listen to Tony Love - he's right. In POKER, suits don't make a difference -- you shoulda split the pot in a draw.

Even with flushes, it's a draw -- assuming that you have the same face cards...

(I'm going by Hoyles, btw - if AC or Vegas rules are different, I'd like to hear about it...)

Tony Love and JG are correct. All the poker clubs in California and casinos around the world that feature poker play by the same rules as far as I know, and the suits are equal for the purposes of deciding the winner of the hand.

The pot would be split if there are two hands of equal value.

Interestingly, though, in the game of seven card stud there is a case when the the suits do have value.

The game begins with everyone receiving two cards face down, and one face-up. Generally, in home games ("friendly" games in people's homes), the highest card of the face-up cards is usually the first to bet, or, if there is a tie, it's usually the "first" of the two, going from the left of the dealer.

But in casinos, the lowest card of the face-ups card is the first to bet, and it's a "forced" bet, called the "bring-in", and it's usually for a lower amount than the minimum bet in that particular game.

Anyway, in a case where there are, say, two deuces showing as the lowest face-up card, the forced bet is determined by alphabetical order of the suits: Clubs first, then Diamonds, Hearts, and Spades.

So in that particular case, Spades does have the highest value so to speak.

Thanks guys. I'll guess I'll have to sue to get my half.

We use to play so many different games, some seven card, but my favorite was progressive where the winner has to win twice to get the pot. It could get expensive of course, if you had a lot of people and everyone wins once. It's that last hand that is tense. It could be costly, but it was fun.


TIS

What a coincidence! I was just thinking of starting a poker thread in the sports forum when I return from the weekend and there is already one started here. I was going to ask those who play poker how much skill actually factors in over luck. I guess I should say I'm talking about texas hold'em, since that's the only game I ever play. I am sure it varies to degrees in other types of games. I still think that hold em is still a game of skill, but there are some people who think that luck is more important than skill. I don't play very often, except for cash games and tournaments with my friends probably once a week. My only experience with poker in Vegas would tend to favor those who believe it's all luck. I went all-in preflop on about the 5th hand of a tournament and my only caller was some European guy who had 7-2 offsuit! So guess what happened? He caught a duece on the river and I was out my $50 bucks for the buy-in. It was the first hand that either of us played. The only reason he had me covered was I had to fold to a re-raise when I was both big and small blind and he hadn't been either yet. So the guy put his tourney life on the line with the worst starting hand possible! (Not using mad face for fear of violating mysterious whine policy) That's what I hate about playing in casinos. $50 to some poor college kid like myself is a decent amount of money to be wagering, but it's equivalent to a tenth of a penny to some arms dealer from Switzerland like the one that busted me. So I guess I'll just stick to blackjack in Vegas. Despite my little re-enactment, I really do believe that there are people who are simply more talented at poker, just like there are better basketball or baseball players. I think that in one single tourney that skilled player still needs luck on his side in addition to his skill, but throughout the course of a year playing professionally, the skilled player will do a hell of a lot better than some random, lucky schmuck who plays the same tourney. Some of my friends still insist it is 99% luck though. Where do you stand?

Get the Rounders DVD -- not only is it a good movie, but the special features section has tips from poker champs. I believe one said the biggest skill necessary in Hold'em is reading the other players, and having balls. There are basic strategies to the game, but those are more easily mastered than the ability to prevent people from reading you, and, the ability to read others. And sure, there's a lot of luck involved in any game.

I've been playing poker for money for exactly 42 years, and fairly successfully, I might add. I'm not good enough to make a living at the game (more on that later), but I'm certain I've won more than I've lost over the years.

As far as the luck vs. skill factor goes, the old saying applies: "I'd rather be lucky than good".

In the long run, the more skillful player will come out ahead, but the "long run" can be loooooong. Sitting in a game in a casino for 4-5 hours, or even longer, may very well not be long enough to even out the luck factor.

Remember, for professionals -- the best players in the world (and I'm talking about the "grinders", guys who "grind it out" to make a living by playing $10-20, or $15-30, not the high-profile guys you see on TV) -- it's a job, and they may play 40, 50 or 60 hours a week, month after month, year after year, which is enough time for the breaks to even out.

But for the occasional visitor for a day at a casino, luck is far more important.

The above is proven by the rather unfortunate experience which you describe, JB. You don't say what you went all in with, but I assume both card were higher than the 2-7 your opponent held, which makes you the favorite what, 85% of the time?

Play the same hand 100 times, and you'd probably win 75% of the time. But obviously, one hand was not enough to overcome the luck factor. Your opponent may have been a 4-1 underdog, but 4-1 odds aren't really that long.

I would also mention that it's important to make sure that you are not in a game in which you are out of your class.

Poker players tend to move up to higher limit games progressively as they win in lower limit games.

A consistent winner in a $5 limit game is naturally gonna move up to a $10 limit if he consistently wins playing $5 limit. If he wins consistently play $10 limit, he's gonna move up to the next level.

But at some point he's going to reach a level where the other players are better than he is, and he'll start to lose and eventually drop back down to the lower level where he has proven to himself that he can win.

There will be exceptions, of course. Some players will always find themselves in higher limit games that they have no chance to win in (unless they are extremely lucky) simply because the stakes in the lower limit game are not high enough to hold their interest, but generally for the regular players that you find in most casinos, the above is true.

So start off in the lowest limit game that you possibly can, and prove to yourself that you can win consistently at that level. If you can, move up in class, and if you keep winning, keep moving up. But as soon as you find it to be a struggle, drop back down to the level at which you are a proven winner.

That's why, BTW, I'm not a professional poker player. I play seven card stud, and have found that I can win consistently playing $5-10. The trouble is, I can't win enough at that level to make a living, and as soon as I move up to $10-20, a level at which one can make a living if they're good enough, I run into a table full of professionals.

As far as Hold 'Em goes, I consider it a game in which luck is more of a factor than seven card stud.

In low limit games, players tend to be willing to stay for the flop when they can see three cards for the price of one so to speak if there is no raise, so if you have six or seven people hanging around and playing with nothing, anytime you see a pair on board after the flop chances are someone has trips.

It's also very hard to read a hand, since you have no idea what someone has in the hole, so, as JG correctly points out, it's more important to be able to read the player than the cards, which can be very hard to do if you don't know the players you are playing with.

That's why I prefer seven card stud. People tend to play with the same starting hands, and since everyone has different cards on board, it's much easier to read another player's hand.

--------------------
Listen, here's the thing: If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker. -- Mike McDermott, Rounders

Rounders is probably the all-time champion poker movie, although the field is rather limited to that and The Cincinnati Kid.

It's quite realistic, and Edward Norton gives a virtuoso performance.

But there is one glaring weakness which bears pointing out:

While underground poker clubs such as The Chesterfield or Teddy KGB's do exist, mostly run by the mob (somewhere in the "How I Got Interested in the Mafia" thread is my personal story about that), there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that the players would be allowed to act as their own dealer.

There would be a house dealer, just like in the casinos.

Worm's ability as a mechanic was integral to the plot of course, but it could never happen in real life that way for exactly that reason.

PL, Of course, I had to go back and read your post in the "How did you get interested?" thread. It was so fascinating. You obviously can tell a story well, so why aren't you writing anymore fiction? If you can remember these things from 40 years ago, and tell them in a way that keeps your reader's attention, then you should keep on writing!!

Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry aggggggggreassive. It's just like the saying says, in the poker game of life, Plaw is the rake. The fuckin rake.

I haven't watched my Rounders DVD is a long time. It's probably collecting dust as we speak.

Thanks for the in-depth reply Plaw. I guess now that I go back and read my post you are correct, I didn't mention what hand I went all-in with. I had big slick, so I didn't have any pair either, it is just hard to conceive any thought process that would consider it good to call with a 7-2 off even if he thought I was bluffing.

I am familiar with other variations of poker such as seven card stud, chicago, and omaha. When we first started having our weekly games, they were very similiar to what JG described earlier. The deal rotated between players and the dealer got to pick the game. It has been a long time since we have played with that format though. Hold em has taken over the poker world, for better or worse. I enjoy playing different games as well, just for the fact it kind of mixes it up a little. I would never feel comfortable playing any game other than texas hold em in a cash game with players other than my friends, however. I really have no skill whatsoever in reading opponents. I just basically play my hand according to implied odds, pot odds, position, etc. Playing with the same people the majority of the time not only gives me a comfort level, it also gives me a pretty good read on how everyone plays. Stepping into a casino takes away any advantage I may have. For that reason, I wouldn't consider myself to be a good poker player. If someone asked me I'd probably tell them I'm about average. Then again, I would rather be underestimated than overrated. That's why I'm tanking in fantasy baseball. I'm just doing my best Woody Harrelson to set you up for football season while you keep grinding it out on your leather ass. :p

Like plaw I was "raised" on 7 card stud and it's still favourite version of poker. But like Jimmy I have noticed the popularity of Hold 'Em even on this side of the pond.

To go back to TIS' post about two Royal Flushes in the same hand, in all my years of playing, mostly house and "friendly" games, I only ever saw one Royal Flush.

The popularity of Hold 'Em can be attributed strictly to its popularity on TV.

When I'm in a casino, everyone playing Hold 'Em is relatively young, and all the stud players are old geezers like me.

As far as royal flushes go, I assume that TIS was playing one of those games witha a bunch of wild cards.

Absolutely Right.Hold'em is for the younger people like me.....sorry Plaw.... I'm playing it for over 2 years now and I really love it!

A few weeks ago I was invited to a weekly Hold'm Game that's run by a local pizzeria owner (not Vercetti :p )... They seem to know what they're doing, have decent stakes ($100+ buy-in), and have a dedicated dealer, etc. I'm just working up the balls to go since I never played it for real.

Playing for real is much more fun. But sometimes you must quit at the correct point. Dont think "I win back my money"...it just doesn't work.

Next week is a Tournament in Holland Casino..I'll join up. See were I can finish.

Probably not a good idea to win it all the first time you go anyway -- especially from Italians.

Maybe you could tell them you have a friend who'd like to play.

A trip down your way is about half the distance to AC.

Plaw - absolutely, but I wanna scope out the joint first. And I only know one or two of the guys who play, so, gotta see how it works...