Talk about old news!!

Well, no point bringing up poor Mike Dukakis and the '88 election. I'm sure it was more than just that silly tank photo that got him beat.



Hey, xXx_DoN_CoRLeOnE_xXx ... can you please pop up a few more batches of popcorn!! Extra butter on mine!

Apple

Mike Dukakis! Another one of the left's fantastic candidates!

Apple, I remember that picture well!

DS

Yeah, really brilliant remark! :rolleyes: Smart way for the dems to win the bible belt states!


That is just an out and out ridiculous statement! Basically what he is saying is that they are thieves? Hmmm and The Kennedys and The Kerrys made their money honestly? HAAAAA! This is supposed to be an educated man? A Dr. of some sort? Dr. of spin, at the very best!

Yes, this man will lead the democratic party right into victory! :rolleyes:


Don Cardi

What the fuck is wrong with American politics anymore? I don't get it. When it comes to who runs for president, I support the guy who stands for the issues in which I stand. Who votes against the issues which I do. I don't give a shit if they failed a class back in eighth grade. That was eighth grade. At this point I'm convinced both parties (because anymore, it seems like we have only two) are retarded. There's no such thing as an honest debate anymore, because personality is getting in the way of how the politicians do business. They're too busy defending their reputations then actually getting on the topics which I give a shit about, such as the 1700 soldiers killed or the 6400 troops wounded in Iraq, or the $175,424.5 billion debt which we're going to have to pay off eventually. This is the shit which pisses me off. And this is the shit non of us are spending enough time considering. Why are we over there? The same reason we were in Vietnam, to defend our fuckin ego. Spreading democracy like we overspread our troops (which is killing them off). Like US intervention is actually going to affect the way another country is run, such as VIETNAM. We're slow learners.

I don't care of John Kerry pissed on the Vietnam wall (though I don't recommend he do that) or threw away his war medals, he went to Vietnam, so I think he has the right to do what ever he wants. I don't want to hear about it during a national debate. And Bush... Bush.. Bush! His inflated ego is enough to make anyone hurl. It's funny how arrogant you can get after you win your second election. I'm tired of him referring to 9/11. Good job, our country was attacked while you were in office, and what? You attacked the wrong fuckin country. It's nothing to brag about.

Anyway, there are my two cents on the whole deal.

Here are a few sites for my claims:

http://www.costofwar.com
http://www.iraqbodycount.org
http://icasualties.org/oif/

John Kerry's going to Vietnam immediately makes him "Da' Man"?? What kind of logic is that? Does my walking into a garage qualify me as a great mechanic?? You want to discuss egos? No one, and I mean NO ONE could top Clinton's, and we had to put up with his crap for 8 agonizing years. Hell, name me one polician who doesn't have at least some ego! And we attacked the wrong country? Maybe you need to take geography 101, dude. I'd sure be interested in seeing how you qualify that strange statement.

Actually, we're talking about 'D's at Yale.

Well, you're half right anyway.

Actually, Kerry's Vietnam service received nothing but respect and praise from the Bush Admin throughout the '04 campaign, including during the Republican Convention. The Swiftboat Vets, etc. conducted their agenda independently (which of course they had every right to do).

Apple

Well you know what your problem is Tony? You are too far removed from what happened. I wonder if the families that are STILL struggling on a daily basis to get through what happened to them on 9/11 feel the same way that you do? I doubt it very much! That has to be one of the most heartless statements EVER made on this site!


Don Cardi

Actually, Kerry's Vietnam service received nothing but respect and praise from the Bush Admin throughout the '04 campaign, including during the Republican Convention. The Swiftboat Vets, etc. conducted their agenda independently (which of course they had every right to do).

Apple [/QB][/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: Apple if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you

Actually Apple is right! It was Kerry and his cronies who continually made references to his Vietnam service and who continually tried to shove Kerry's service record down the American people's throats! It was the Kerry campaign that
originally started the whole service record thing by trying to discredit W's service record. THey were the ones who opened up the pandora's box, not the Bush people! Short Memories here! Very Short! :rolleyes:

But you know what, it doesn't really matter anymore. Bush beat Kerry by the vote of the American People! And the left still refuses to get over it! This is exactly why it will take the dems many years before they ever get some kind of control back. They insist on dwelling in the past!


Don Cardi

Recall the following, for example:

In his acceptance speech at the Dem Convention, Kerry paraded his fellow vets out and opened with that ridiculous, "...REPORTING FOR DUTY..." line. Then later on made a comment about the 'back door' service of the National Guard.

At the Republican Convention, Dick Cheney in his own speech stated that John Kerry deserved nothing but respect and gratitude for his service to his country. That was the end of that.

But you're right, Don C...none of that matters now since Bush WAS re-elected.

Which brings us full circle back to Howard Dean and his party which is still so bitter and bereft of ideas that there's really nothing left right now except to continue to hurl the empty, nasty insults and entertain those who are gullible enough to cheer them.

Keep it up, Howard...you're doing just fine!!!

Apple

I wish you'd change your avatar every now and again, Apple. I'm beginning to hate Diane Keaton.

Mick

And to think...I was actually about to change the avatar when I suddenly got the meaning of your post.

Poor Diane. But...no gain in having you learn to hate someone else!!



Apple

You have some nerve saying something as terrible as that! You think that we should just forget about what happened to us? Go tell that to some little child who is still waiting for her mother to come home from work! Go tell that to the little boy who just can't understand why his father left him that day to go and help peopel and still has not returned home. You are way out of line with that!
But back to the topic at hand. If Dean is doing such a good job as DNC head then why has the Democratic Party only raised 14.0 million so far this year and the Republicans have raised almost 40.0 million? It's time for Dean to go.


DS

Dean if fine right where he is!

and as far as the tony love comment, I won't even get started

ok, I'm wading in here. I am not a liberal. I do not consider myself as coming from the left. However, I am getting very, very sick of being insulted because I disagree with much that the current regime has done in their 4+ years in office.

All we hear about is how the "liberal left" is supposed to be hanging their head in shame because they support things that are guaranteed to us as Americans, the basic rights that are offered to us by the Constitution: such as separation of church and state, the right to free speech, my presumption of innocence, my right to avail myself of the justice system, due process, right to privacy, and on and on. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how I'm going to burn in hell if I exercise my right to choose. Well, I'm sick of the "rabid right" insulting me by trying to revoke some of the rights I've mentioned above, but God forbid I try to legislate your right to carry that weapon you want so badly that you can't wait a few days to get it.

As for Tony Love's comment, I don't think he meant to insult the memories of those that died that day, nor suggest that we as a nation should ever forget it. However, I think that he might have meant that he is sick of hearing President Bush throw it out there, as if to make him untouchable.

And, Apple, you truly can't believe that the Swiftboat Veterans put together those ads completely of their own volition. Those were pretty pricey ads for a group of veterans I've never heard of before those ads.

Well SB, it's a good thing you acknowledged you don't consider yourself a "lefty" or you'd be branded a "sore loser." :rolleyes: A "liberal" certainly couldn't have posted that post.

I am more left, but don't consider myself "hardcore" left at all. It does seem though that it's a dirty word to many people, and not just here on the BB. But isn't a meaning of liberal "open?" If so what's wrong with that?

Truth is, I agree with everything you said in your post. You sound like you'd be a fair and worthy debater, seeing both sides.b Kudos to you.

I agree also with TonyLove's comment. I took it just as you did. I don't think it was meant to insult anyone.

I suppose political issues will always be "hot", but never as much as in this Presidency. Let's face it, there's hatred on both sides. As a matter of fact there is one issue I am discussing elsewhere, because it is of great interest/concern to me. I don't dare even bring it up here because you know what will break loose.

As far as the Swift Boat Veterans ad. Anyone who believes that it wasn't a GB & Co. planned ad, really has been hitting the "Red" kool aid a little bit.

TIS

That part I agree with. Anyone who really believes that the swift boat vets did all that stuff on there own are not being realistic. Let us not forget, no matter which side we support, that these guys, Bush, Kerry, Dean, etc. are ALL politicians and they all play dirty from time to time. It's just that somw are more dirtier than others.

Well maybe I am a bit more sensative to this issue than others, but even if TL's statement was a swipe at The President, it still is wrong to use that event, an event that should never be forgotten, as a means of attacking The President. You may not like this President's domestic policies, you may not like his foreign policies, and you just may not like him for no reason at all. But NO ONE should ever fault him for making references to 9/11 when he is making a speach. It was a horrible thing that happened to us, and war was declared on us that day, and we are still fighting that war. As The President of a country that was attacked, it is his duty to remind the American people every now and then as to what happened to us that day and why we must stay steadfast in the war on terror. If The President did not mention 9/11, these same people would be accusing him of not facing the facts of what happened and accusing him of wanting the American people to forget. ANY President who is in office during a war is bound to be criticized, no matter what he says or does. But the bottom line for me is that since 9/11 several potential attacks have been thwarted, and almost 4 years later there has not been an attack on American soil. Thank God. So this administration must be doing something right as far as homeland security is concerned. But IMHO, no matter what, 9/11 is a very sore subject for many many people, and TonyLove should NEVER use that day as a platform for attacking our President. I don't know, but for me it is still a very real event that I will never forget.


Don Cardi

I would like to thank TIS and SB for understanding my comments. I will never forget about 9/11. It was a real tradegy, I believe that. However, when you travel to New York and see Ground Zero, there's a sign up basically saying if you see a street vendor selling merchandise with photos or something about the attacks: don't buy it. After all, they're trying to benefit from something horrible which has happened to our country; they're taking advantage of wrongdoings. How is that any different then what President Bush has done during his campaign? He'll draw back on 9/11 for political gain when it should be drawed back on for memorial purposes.

In response to an earlier post about me going to "Geography 101". It's very ironic something that this would be said about the topic at hand: Iraq. I love this country, and I (along with many fellow Americans) wanted vengeance for 9/11. I wanted us to attack the sonofabitches who killed so many innocent people. Bush was doing fine at first, went straight into Afghanistan, the source of our problem. After all, Osama Bin Laden admitted he would attack the United States. Next thing I know, he turns his focus to Iraq and Saddam Hussein. That was a whole different issue, totally irrelevant to 9/11. I believe we should take care of our vendetta for 9/11 first.

TL- There's a big difference between street vendors selling trinkets for profit and the U.S. President talking about an attack on American ground.

DC - I must admit that I was a bit insulted by your remarks. Does facing reality and pointing out that the President may have used the events of that day to make political hay, make it any more or less of a tragedy for any of us? Like many others here, my life was touched by the losses of that day. Although few here experienced the horror firsthand as you did, that doesn't make it any less real, or any less of a tragedy. I personally will never forget watching the smoke plume that day from the safety of my conference room windows. I will never forget the countless funeral processions in my neighborhood. I will never forget the little boy in my daughter's class who threw out the first ball at the Little League field renamed Heroes Field in honor of his father and the others that we lost here. To suggest that mentioning it lessens the impact of that attack on anyone is insulting.

TIS, I agree that being open-minded is a good policy. I wish that more people could be open to the ideas of others, but it seems that this country has become one of "with us or against us", and not a whole lot of in-between.

SB, I apologize if I insulted you, as that was NEVER my intent. I know that many people are still sensative to what happened and that many others still remember clearly the hurt that they felt that day. But my reply was not an intent to insult YOU or question YOUR feelings. PLEASE check your PM.


Don Cardi

Back at you, DC. I never intended my remarks to hurt anyone's feelings. Check your PM. You're a good guy who went through a horrific experience that day, as did thousands. It is not a subject matter to be taken lightly, and is likely to arouse some serious feelings.

I guess I'll have to concede THAT point. Frankly, I don't belive John McCain ever got over the 2000 Presidential Primary campaign, where then Gov. Bush's team used a bit of dirty politics to draw votes away from McCain who at the time was giving him a real run for his money! In fact, didn't McCain actually win the New Hampshire Primary that year?

Apple

Yes he did, and had he won South Carolina it would have been a real dog fight. Now it looks like McCain is gearing up for 2008.

Interesting story in Rudy Giuliani's book Leadership. He was a friend of McCain's, but was going to endorse Bush for the NY primary. Bush's campaign asked him to come out publicly against John McCain, but he wouldn't do it, and I believe that ruffled some soon-to-be presidential feathers. Now I must say that John McCain is a republican I could vote for!!

It's like I've said a gazillion times: No one was enforcing the "mighty UN's" resolutions about nuclear arms. It doesn't matter if not so much as a firecracker would've been found over there. The problem was that Hussein wasn't letting anyone take a look. Now, if we're going to give power to the
"mighty UN," what good is it if no one enforces the rules that are made? Granted, Bush should've focused on that aspect of the war rather than the WMDs (which Saddaam had 12 years to hide anyway), and then the critics couldn't have said anything. They damn him for cooperating with the UN and they damn him when he doesn't. The man can't win with y'all.

Iraq "totally irrelevant" to 9-11 and terrorists? So, those aren't the same types of terrorists bombing our boys over there? Well, what are they, then? Apaches?? :rolleyes:

Snake, you get a standing ovation from me! Well said!


Don Cardi

Grazie, D.C.! And the ovation is mutual, m' friend!

That sounds right. Let me ask you something, DS. How is it going to help me or you or anyone if Bush or his administration fights for prayer to go back in public schools or government buildings? I don't want to be around any of that religion bullshit and I better never have to be because I don't like it, don't need it, and don't want it around me.

Here is the full quote:
“How is a single parent supposed to do her job, pick up her kids from day care or wherever, rush home and grab a sandwich for an 8-hour vote? Well, Republicans I guess can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives. But for ordinary working people, who have to work eight hours a day, they have kids, they got to get home to those kids, the idea of making them stand for eight hours to cast their ballot for democracy is wrong.”

Can you name a Republican who has ever gone through that? If not, than Dean was saying the truth, wasn't he?

I'd rather have him stay and cause more drama for his party. However, with Texas' bogus judicial system, he'd be lavel to get the chair, so that'd be nice too.

Oh yeh, I like Howard Dean. -Pat