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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125273
06/10/25 04:40 AM
06/10/25 04:40 AM
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Capri
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The Guardian June 10, 2025 Israel preparing to deport Gaza aid boat activists, including Greta Thunberg The passengers from the Madleen were intercepted by Israeli forces on Monday and towed to the port of Ashdod. Swedish climate campaigner Greta Thunberg and other activists whose Gaza-bound aid ship was intercepted by Israeli naval forces have been taken to a Tel Aviv airport for deportation, Israel said on Tuesday. The activist group departed Italy on 1 June aboard the Madleen carrying a symbolic amount of food and supplies for Gaza, whose entire population the U.N. has warned is at risk of famine. Israeli forces intercepted the boat in international waters on Monday and towed it to the port of Ashdod. The Israeli foreign ministry said on X “The passengers of the ‘Selfie Yacht’ arrived at Ben Gurion airport to depart from Israel and return to their home countries,” “Those who refuse to sign deportation documents and leave Israel will be brought before a judicial authority.” The Freedom Flotilla Coalition (FFC), the group operating the Madleen, said all 12 campaigners were “being processed and transferred into the custody of Israeli authorities”. “They may be permitted to fly out of Tel Aviv as early as tonight,” it said on social media. a presidential official said French president Emmanuel Macron requested that the six French nationals aboard the boat “be allowed to return to France as soon as possible”,  Your wish Israel command Adalah, an Israeli NGO offering legal support for the country’s Arab minority, said the activists on board the Madleen had requested its services, and that the group was likely to be taken to a detention centre before being deported. Turkey condemned the interception as a “heinous attack” and Iran denounced it as “a form of piracy” in international waters.  “heinous act” Turkish opposition leader imprisoned indefinitely
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125274
06/10/25 04:46 AM
06/10/25 04:46 AM
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Capri
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Agence France-Presse June 10, 2025 Greta Thunberg holed up in Israeli migrant prison after ship stormed
Thunberg being held in a Israeli prison for migrants ahead of a court hearing that could see her deported from the country. Israel’s Foreign Ministry released a picture of the Swedish activist after soldiers boarded the U.K.-flagged ship Madleen, operated by the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, on Monday.
On Tuesday, AEST, the foreign ministry said the vessel officials have mocked as the “selfie yacht” had now docked at Ashdod, in the nation’s south. “The passengers are currently undergoing medical examinations to ensure they are in good health,” it said on X.
Thunberg, 22, was one of a dozen people on board the ship which left from Italy on June 1 bound for Gaza as part of an attempted aid delivery. Her lawyer Nariman Shehade Zoabi told Swedish news outlet Expressen "she was demanding to meet her client."
“Based on previous experiences, Greta Thunberg and the others will be taken to Givon prison near the town of Ramle,” she said. “There, what are called illegal immigrants are detained and there is a court that can quickly decide on deportation.”
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125275
06/10/25 04:48 AM
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Agence France-Presse June 10, 2025 ‘Strange person’: Trump’s jibe  Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump ridiculed Thunberg in a White House press conference overnight, telling reporters the young woman should seek “anger management”. “Well she’s a strange person — she’s a young, angry person,” he said. “I don’t know if it’s real anger, it’s hard to believe actually, but I saw what happened. “She’s certainly different. I think she needs to go to an anger management class, that’s my primary recommendation for her.” Asked for his response to Thunberg’s claims she was she was “kidnapped” by the Israelis, he replied: “I think Israel has enough problems  without kidnapping Greta Thunberg.” — Small potatoes  Get a real job!
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125276
06/10/25 04:53 AM
06/10/25 04:53 AM
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Capri
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Agence France-Presse June 10, 2025 Greta Thunberg is being held in a Israeli prison for migrants, her pleas for help from her native Sweden have been met with a blunt reply.  Sweden earlier rejected Thunberg’s request for help, with Foreign Affairs Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard telling media the activist’s supporters had been flooding consular hotlines. she said outside the Swedish parliament “A great responsibility rests on those who choose to travel contrary to the advice given to a place,”  Macron take note “It is quite dangerous to run a campaign that means that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ consular hotline is called down. “The consequence is that Swedes in need abroad have to wait in line for far too long. “If she needs consular support, we will do everything we can, just as we do with all Swedish citizens.” The detainment of Thunberg and her crewmates sparked demonstrations in her homeland of Sweden and across Europe.
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125277
06/10/25 04:56 AM
06/10/25 04:56 AM
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Capri
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The Associated Press June 10, 2025 Activist Greta Thunberg  Drama Queen — was deported from Israel Tuesday, the country's Foreign Ministry said, a day after the Gaza-bound ship she was on was seized by the Israeli military. In a post on X, the Foreign Ministry shared a photo of Thunberg on a plane, saying she had departed Israel and was headed to France before continuing on to Sweden.  Abandoning your friends Adalah, a legal rights group in Israel representing Thunberg and the other activists, said Thunberg, two other activists and a journalist had agreed to be deported and leave Israel. Other activists refused deportation, were being held in detention and their case was set to be heard by Israeli authorities.  wasting Israel precious time and resources, for more notoriety 
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125299
06/10/25 12:27 PM
06/10/25 12:27 PM
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Hollander
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TU Delft: no new collaborations with Israeli universities
10-06-25, 16:57
The Delft University of Technology will not enter into new partnerships with Israeli universities and organizations "unless very strict criteria are met." The current projects will continue "for the time being," but the board will critically assess them, the Delft University announced on Tuesday. The decision was taken due to “serious concerns about possible involvement in genocidal violence and human rights violations in the context of the conflict between Israel and Gaza.” The TU does not rule out that a “very limited” exception can be made, in which cooperation with Israel is still possible, but “the standard remains a clear ‘no, unless’.”
The decision only concerns TU collaboration with Israeli institutions. Delft researchers are allowed to have contact with individual colleagues from Israel. This is not covered by the decision.
Commission The TU board has had a special committee, a Moral Consultation Chamber, look into the ties with Israel. The university does not want to say who was on that committee "to protect independence and objectivity and to protect the members from unfair treatment based on their work for the consultation".
Many Dutch universities are considering their ties with institutions in Israel. For example, the University of Amsterdam, Radboud University in Nijmegen, Tilburg University and Erasmus University Rotterdam have scaled back their collaborations, and Utrecht University also wants to do so.
There have been many anti-Israel demonstrations at universities in recent years. The demonstrators want all Dutch educational institutions to completely break off all contact with all institutions in Israel. The steps that the universities have taken so far do not go far enough for them.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125300
06/10/25 12:38 PM
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International • 15:13 • Modified at 15:13 Britons ban far-right Israeli ministers Author : Mark van Harreveld The United Kingdom is formally imposing sanctions on two far-right Israeli ministers, Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, over their conduct during the war in Gaza, The Times reports. Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Sa'ar has called the sanctions "scandalous." According to Sa'ar, the Israeli government will meet early next week to discuss a response to the "unacceptable decision."
The decision sees the British government join Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other countries in freezing assets and imposing a travel ban on Israeli National Security Minister Ben-Gvir - a West Bank settler - and Finance Minister Smotrich.
Read also Far-right cabinet partner Netanyahu threatens to leave Hamas deal Pressure on Israel Like many other European countries, the UK has been increasing pressure on the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to end a blockade of humanitarian aid to Gaza, where international experts warn of a looming famine.
Read also 'Gaza Strip completely destroyed after this war', Israeli ministers now also support Trump's proposal to relocate Palestinians London last month suspended free trade talks with Israel over its "egregious policies" in the West Bank and Gaza, summoned the Israeli ambassador and announced further sanctions against settlers in the West Bank. Earlier, British Foreign Secretary David Lammy condemned statements by Smotrich about the possible cleansing and destruction of Gaza and the deportation of its inhabitants to third countries. Lammy also called the recent Israeli offensive "a dark new phase in this conflict".
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125355
06/10/25 09:11 PM
06/10/25 09:11 PM
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Trojan
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It is sad if it comes to santions againt Israel like Russia,
'Threat of sanctions against Israel from France is mainly symbolic' From: The Times of Israel June 11, 2025 Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, issued a strong statement condemning the sanctions against two Israeli cabinet members: Rubio denounces sanctions on Ben Gvir and Smotrich, urges their reversal After the State Department’s spokesperson condemned the decision by five Western government’s decisions to sanction far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, the office issues a statement in Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s name echoing disapproval of the move. The statement is largely a regurgitation of the one made earlier by State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce, but also includes a call from Rubio for United Kingdom, Canada, Norway, New Zealand and Australia to reverse the decision. — France MIA...? “These sanctions do not advance US-led efforts to achieve a ceasefire, bring all hostages home and end the war,” Rubio says. The secretary’s statement focused on Gaza, but the British-led move came in response to Israel’s policies in the West Bank, where they said Smotrich and Ben Gvir have incited extremist violence against Palestinians. Settler attacks have been taking place there unchecked on a near-daily basis and the head of the police’s West Bank division is currently under investigation for ignoring the phenomenon in order to curry favor with Ben Gvir. “We reject any notion of equivalence: Hamas is a terrorist organization that committed unspeakable atrocities, continues to hold innocent civilians hostage, and prevents the people of Gaza from living in peace. We remind our partners not to forget who the real enemy is. The United States urges the reversal of the sanctions and stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Israel,” Rubio says.
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125357
06/10/25 09:18 PM
06/10/25 09:18 PM
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If you are true friends you can be critical of each other, but to call it genocide is hateful or blindly following Hamas propaganda it feels like antisemitism. The Israeli government is also to blame, but not the Israeli people. They are even blame us Dutch because we have ties with them. In total, this concerns more than 200 relationships with, among others, Israeli companies, universities and government institutions, a significant number of which work with or for the Israeli armed forces.
Last edited by Hollander; 06/10/25 09:21 PM.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1125358
06/10/25 09:21 PM
06/10/25 09:21 PM
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Trojan
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From: BBC June 11, 2025 Huckabee suggests Muslim countries should give up land for Palestinian state The US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee has suggested "Muslim countries" should give up some of their land to create a future Palestinian state. In an interview with the BBC, Huckabee said "Muslim countries have 644 times the amount of land that are controlled by Israel". "So maybe, if there is such a desire for the Palestinian state, there would be someone who would say, we'd like to host it," he said. The ambassador also called a two-state solution — a proposed formula for peace between Israel and the Palestinians that has generally received international backing, including from multiple US administrations — "an aspirational goal". The two-state solution envisages an independent Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank and in Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital. It would exist alongside Israel. In a separate interview with Bloomberg, Huckabee said the US was no longer pursuing the goal of an independent Palestinian state. State Department spokeswoman Tammy Bruce later said the ambassador "speaks for himself", and it is the president who is responsible for US policy in the Middle East. If everyone "speaks for himself", more chaos... Needs coordination. - Arab countries vs Israel
1. Total area of Arab countries 5.07 million square miles Total area of Israel 8,019 square miles 2. So Israel is 0.16% of the Arab countries In other words Arab states combined are 630 times bigger than Israel 3. The Arab countries are 545 times larger in land area and 385 times of Israel in population - Yet carve up Israel....
1. Then again, haven't seen any of the 50odd Muslim countries offering refuge and taking in any Palestinians -- wonder why! 2. They all shut their borders real quick and keep them shut
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125359
06/10/25 09:25 PM
06/10/25 09:25 PM
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Trojan
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Later this month at the United Nations in New York, French and Saudi diplomats will host a conference aimed at laying out a roadmap for an eventual Palestinian state. Although Huckabee did not say where any future Palestinian state could be located specifically or whether the US would support such an effort, he called the conference "ill-timed and inappropriate". "It's also something that is completely wrongheaded for European states to try to impose in the middle of a war," he said, arguing that it would result in Israel being "less secure". "At what point does it have to be in the same piece of real estate that Israel occupies?" he said on the BBC's Newshour programme. "I think that's a question that ought to be posed to everybody who's pushing for a two-state solution." Asked if the US position was that there could not be a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Huckabee said: "I wouldn't say there can never be, what I would say is that a culture would have to change. "Right now the culture is that it's OK to target Jews and kill them and you're rewarded for it. That has to change." True Well said
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125361
06/10/25 09:31 PM
06/10/25 09:31 PM
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Trojan
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From: The Times of Israel June 11, 2025 US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee appears to express skepticism of Witkoff’s efforts in Gaza and Iran talks Huckabee appears to express skepticism with US special envoy Steve Witkoff’s efforts to broker a Gaza hostage deal and Iran nuclear deal. Huckabee is asked during a Free Press podcast interview about Witkoff’s assertion earlier this year that Qatar is doing “God’s work” in mediating between Israel and Hamas. “I hadn’t heard him say that. It would be very interesting if he did say that,” Huckabee responds. “Steve and I have a different view of Qatar and how trustworthy they are,” he adds after the interviewer asserted that Witkoff had indeed made that comment. The US ambassador then clarifies that: both he and Witkoff are “playing for the same team, playing for the same president. I’m not going to criticize or condemn him.” “He may be working in a way that ultimately is going to be helpful. Whether it’s with dealing with Hamas or dealing with Iran — I hope so,” Huckabee continues. “But I have a lot of doubt about whether… negotiations with people who are inherently sponsoring evil things are going to be trustworthy to do the right thing, the best thing, and the good thing when it really comes down to it,” Huckabee adds. From: The Times of Israel April 16, 2025 But if European diplomats think Witkoff was naïve in dealing with Hamas / Netanyahu, it is nothing to the scorn they hold for his handling of Putin. Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei doubtless laughing  into his beard at the arrogant amateurism of those Americans. “It is as if Steve Witkoff is trying to play three dimensional chess with chess grand-masters on three chess boards simultaneously not having played the game before.”
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125362
06/10/25 09:37 PM
06/10/25 09:37 PM
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Trojan
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If you are true friends you can be critical of each other, but to call it genocide is hateful or blindly following Hamas propaganda it feels like antisemitism. It is indeed and Politics thinking of their next election Day 613 The polarizing Netanyahu "has led Israel to the terrible place they are now in” -- Global pariah on the world stage Everyone -- Gazans in particular between a rock and a hard place -- paying the horrendous price Israelis have every reason to believe that the State of Israel can *successfully reset the regional strategic architecture in positive directions — 1. as it did once through the Abraham Accords 2. as it has in going a long way toward *crushing Hamas and Hezbollah 3. as it has in stripping Iran of its air defenses, and more *which also sped forward the collapse of the Russian and Iranian-backed Assad regime in Syria *If Israel still exists.... The question is this: - How does one advance a deeper, more mature, more resilient and more patient appreciation of threats and responsibilities in the Middle East among Western leaders?
- How does one assist them in growing a spine and backing Israel along its long path toward security and prosperity?
Exactly — Grow a spine
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Trojan]
#1125365
06/10/25 10:12 PM
06/10/25 10:12 PM
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Israel rejects a two-state solution. It says any final settlement must be the result of negotiations with the Palestinians, and statehood should not be a precondition. — True and certainly not rewarding terrorism
Huckabee has previously been a strong supporter of the idea of a "greater Israel", seeking permanent Israeli control of the Occupied Palestinian Territories, and using the biblical term "Judea and Samaria" for the West Bank.
Some of his language echoes positions frequently taken by ultranationalist groups in Israel.
Some in this movement, including far-right ministers in the Israeli governing coalition, have argued for the expulsion of Palestinians from the occupied West Bank and Gaza, saying any future Palestinian state could exist in Arab or Muslim countries.
If such a policy was enacted, rights groups and European governments say it would be a clear violation of international law. It is the Holy Land not only for Israelis and Palestinians but for Muslims, Jews and Christians around the world. One state would be best with all people.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125367
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,539 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Extracts only: Israel rejects a two-state solution. It says any final settlement must be the result of negotiations with the Palestinians, and statehood should not be a precondition. — True and certainly not rewarding terrorism. Israel has had 77 years to “make them an offer they can't refuse" It is the Holy Land not only for Israelis and Palestinians but for Muslims, Jews and Christians around the world. One state would be best with all people. Sure thing DERISS Diversity, Equity, Respect, Inclusion, Safety, Security for ALL people At the end of Day 614 Israel spent its 77 year life trying not to be careless -- but under Benjamin Netanyahu... October 7 and beyond "collective suicide” US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee, Huckabee: "Right now the culture is that it's OK to target Jews and kill them and you're rewarded for it. That has to change." True Well said Huckabee: “But I have a lot of doubt about whether… negotiations with people who are inherently sponsoring evil things are going to be trustworthy to do the right thing, the best thing, and the good thing when it really comes down to it,” Barbaric, brutal, evil terror enemy But....  Whose fault Israel forced into never-ending negotiations with terrorists  The polarizing Netanyahu "has led Israel to the terrible place they are now in” -- Global pariah on the world stage - sacrifices, horrifically wounded soldiers and soldiers returning in coffins
- The horrors and immeasurable suffering, death and destruction All sides Endless offensive Forever war devastating terror trauma
- It is the innocent civilians indeed -- Gazans in particular between a rock and a hard place -- paying the horrendous price
'In wars, the truth is the first casualty.' Aeschylus (526-456 BC). Don't forget there are no 'journalists' in Gaza. Just Hamas propaganda operatives. The West Bank and East-Jerusalem is very different. All the more reason to take extra care to validate the terror propaganda especially Hamas' mouthpiece Al Jazeera Again, there is no equivalence between Democratic Israel and murderous terrorists As for the dreadful Netanyahu — If you are true friends you can be critical of each other, but to call it genocide is hateful or blindly following Hamas propaganda it feels like antisemitism. It is indeed and Politics thinking of their next election Exactly — Grow a spine with 'allies' like this.... who needs terrorists Besides unfortunately for Israel, Trump's got his hands full with US domestic issues — Sick of these destructive, lawless, violent, anti-everything protests — worldwide
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Trojan]
#1125368
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Kangaroo Don
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Extracts: From: BBC June 11, 2025 US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee also strongly criticised US allies for sanctioning two far-right Israeli ministers over "repeated incitements of violence against Palestinian communities" in the occupied West Bank.
he said: I have not yet heard a good reason for why these two elected ministers have been sanctioned by countries that ought to respect the country's sovereignty and recognise that they have not conducted any criminal activity," I have heard a lot of bad reasons! Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich — SanctionedSBS Australia by Rashida Yosufzai 11 June 2025 Extracts: - Who are Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, the Israeli ministers sanctioned by five western countries?
1. One was convicted of supporting a group on terrorism blacklists and now is in charge of the police force 2. The other reportedly described himself as a "fascist homophobe" Both ministers were targeted and sanctioned, for "inciting violence against Palestinians in the West Bank" the joint statement with Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom said The pair are crucial powerbrokers in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government — effectively 'kingmakers' after helping him form the government, and have repeatedly threatened to withdraw their support The duo have a history of making controversial remarks — something that was cited by UK Middle East minister Hamish Falconer after the sanctions were announced. Falconer said, "Their own words condemn them" "Mr Smotrich said there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation" Mr Ben Gvir has spoken of his rights in the West Bank, a territory his government is occupying, as more important than the rights of millions of Palestinians"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125369
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Kangaroo Don
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Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich — SanctionedSBS Australia by Rashida Yosufzai 11 June 2025 Extracts: Itamar Ben-Gvir is Israel's national security minister and lives in a West Bank settlement Ben-Gvir's portfolio puts him in charge of the Israel Border Police in the occupied West Bank The 49-year-old entered parliament in 2022 and leads a far-right, anti-Arab party called "Otzma Yehudit" or Jewish Power Ben-Gvir was convicted in 2007 of racist incitement and support for a group on both the Israeli and United States terrorism blacklists, according to Reuters As a teenager, he was not drafted for compulsory military service in the Israeli army IDF because of his "extremist activities" the Times of Israel reported Ben-Gvir rose to prominence during his legal career for supporting activists suspected of terrorism and hate crimes. "Ben-Gvir is the go-to man when it comes to Jewish extremists facing legal proceedings," the The Jerusalem Post wrote in a 2022 list of influential Israelis Last year, Ben-Gvir called for the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem to be replaced with a synagogue The compound is Islam's third-holiest site and Judaism's holiest place according to Reuters, Ben-Gvir has repeatedly drawn the ire of the US over 1. his rejection of a political solution with the Palestinians 2. and his support for Jewish settlers who attack Palestinians in the occupied West Bank
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125370
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Kangaroo Don
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Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich — SanctionedSBS Australia by Rashida Yosufzai 11 June 2025 Extracts: Bezalel Smotrich is Israel's finance minister and also lives in a West Bank settlement. Settlements are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this Smotrich leads the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism which has 14 seats in the Knesset (Israeli parliament) In a recording published in January 2023 Smotrich reportedly described himself as a "fascist homophobe" Smotrich was quoted as saying by Israeli news outlet Haaretz, "I'm a fascist homophobe but I'm a man of my word" "I won't stone gays and you won't feed me shrimp" In March 2023 Smotrich was quoted as saying by Israeli news outlet Haaretz delivered a speech that sparked outrage, saying: 1. There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation 2. There is no Palestinian history 3. There is no Palestinian language The remark came weeks after he apologised for saying the Palestinian town of Hawara in the West Bank should be "erased" Regarding Gaza, in April 2024 Smotrich said three Gaza cities would be under "total annihilation" "There are no half measures — Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat — total annihilation" Smotrich said, according to Haaretz Last month, Smotrich said by the end of 2025 Gaza's population would be "concentrated" in a narrow strip of land he described as a "humanitarian zone" with the remainder of the enclave "totally destroyed" according to the Times of Israel "They will be totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places"
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Capri]
#1125371
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Kangaroo Don
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IDF losing the war — can't fight / defeat Hamas on their own that they have to 'recruit' criminal gangs to fight Hamas IDF winning battles losing war  Hamas Sill standing Still firing Still calling the shots What Hamas did October 7, 2023 made history -- history. It's never been done before. Not in 77 years. No terrorist even Hezbollah, Iran's proxies “Axis of Evil” would have dreamed that such a thing could be possible — breaching Israel's 'impenetrable' Fort Knox 'invulnerable' deterrence, security and terrorists running amok for hours / days. Where was IDF? ID FailHamas brought Israel to its knees October 7 Day 614 Israel still on its knees 'Hamas has Defeated Israel’The Palestine Choricle 08 June 2025 Extracts: - political and military echelon bringing disaster upon Israel
Retired Israeli Major General Itzhak Brik Speaks of ‘Collective Suicide’ The retired general directly addressed the ongoing war on Gaza, now entering its twentieth month, dismissing official Israeli claims of progress Retired Israeli Major General Itzhak Brik has issued a scathing assessment of Israel’s military and political leadership, warning that the country is on the verge of “collective suicide” and that the army has effectively been defeated by Hamas in Gaza In a blistering op-ed published on Sunday in the Israeli newspaper Maariv, Brik — who previously served as IDF Ombudsman for Soldiers’ Complaints — wrote that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are, 1. “left behind, without a response to future wars” 2. and are “preparing itself for the wars of the past not the wars of the future” Brik, a longtime critic of Israel’s military doctrine, accused the Israeli government of leading the country into a disastrous path Brik warned, “With a political and military echelon of this type, there is no need for external enemies; they will bring disaster upon us, in their stupidity,”
“We may soon reach a point of no return and the only thing left for us to do is pray to our God to come to our aid and then we will all become messiahs who pray for miracles”
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125372
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Kangaroo Don
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'Hamas has Defeated Israel’The Palestine Choricle 08 June 2025 Extracts: - IDF — unprepared for modern warfare
The retired Israeli Major General Itzhak Brik directly addressed the ongoing war on Gaza, now entering its twentieth month, Day 614 dismissing official Israeli claims of progress Referring to the latest military campaign dubbed "Operation Gideon’s Chariots" Brik wrote, “Just as the political and military echelons lied to the public throughout the war, declaring back and forth that it was a matter of days until Hamas would surrender… The same lies of the political and military echelons continue even now” Brik added: “Not a day goes by without our forces being killed or wounded… We will understand what a terrible tragedy this group and their friends, who have gone off the rails and are acting with shocking irresponsibility and are below all criticism, are bringing the people of Israel to” Perhaps the most devastating part of Brik’s critique came in his stark admission of defeat: “An army that held its own as the strongest in the Middle East was defeated by Hamas, a powerful blow to Israel’s deterrence against its enemies and this will encourage our enemies around our borders to prepare themselves for war against us” Brik argues that Israel’s strategic choices — particularly its overreliance on air power and neglect of ground forces and missile technology — have left the military unprepared for modern warfare Brik pointed to Ukraine’s recent drone strikes on Russian air bases as a paradigm shift in global military doctrine while Israel continues to invest billions in outdated technologies - Impossible to win Modern wars with Air power alone
“Even after all the lessons were learned during the ‘Iron Swords’ war, which proved that it is impossible to win wars with planes alone, we still continue to invest forty billion dollars in purchasing planes” Brik wrote, warning that “manned aircraft are losing their place to swarms of unmanned aerial vehicles”
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125373
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Kangaroo Don
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'Hamas has Defeated Israel’The Palestine Choricle 08 June 2025 Extracts: - Israel leading to collective suicide
Retired Israeli Major General Itzhak Brik noted that China now produces up to 700,000 attack drones a month while Israel remains unprepared for similar technological shifts. Brik stated, “The air revolution is already here” In the Gaza Strip, Brik said, Israel’s military strategy has largely failed“The IDF is almost unable to harm Hamas but mainly uninvolved Gazan residents who are mainly harmed by the air force’s bombings” Brik added, 1. Hamas fighters operate freely in tunnels 2. while Israeli forces continue to suffer mounting casualties “In the meantime, the kidnapped are dying in the tunnels and many more of our soldiers are wounded and killed” The former general also warned of imminent financial collapse, “The Ministry of Finance announces that at this rate, within a few weeks, the state budget will run out… and we have not yet reached the middle of the year” Brik concluded with a dire forecast: “They are leading the people of Israel to collective suicide”
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125374
06/11/25 12:01 AM
06/11/25 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Kangaroo Don
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I trust Shin Bet though they want the best for Israel.  Whose fault Israeli communities murdered and hostages taken? Shin Bet asleep at the wheel despite numerous Red Flags and Warnings by Border spotters dismissed as 'James Bond' fancy fantasy True October 7 will hunt them forever but their overall record in the history of Israel is not bad ! They admitted in March they failled. Shin Bet's motto is "Magen VeLo Yera'e" — "Defender that shall not be seen" or "The unseen shield" And Shin Bet was certainly not be seen leading up to October 7 and beyond. Besides History will never let them forget October 7 and they will be haunted by their Fail Forever.
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125423
06/11/25 07:45 PM
06/11/25 07:45 PM
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Trojan
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From: The Times of Israel June 11, 2025 Day 614 As the IDF deepens its hold in Gaza, what exactly is meant to happen next?
1. Domestic and global criticism of the war is growing. 2. So, too, the US president’s impatience. 3. Aid supply is chaotic, often deadly. 4. The far right is bent on permanent reoccupation. 5. Netanyahu is preoccupied with his own survival
What exactly is the Israeli government, and by extension the IDF, seeking to achieve in Gaza? The question seems absurd, 20 months into a war that began with Hamas’s invasion and massacre.
After all, we all know Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s stated goals: 1. war until complete victory — comprising the destruction of Hamas, 2. the return of all the hostages, 3. the elimination of any future threat to Israel from Gaza, 4. and (recently added) the implementation of US President Donald Trump’s plan for the relocation of the Gaza populace.
But this doesn’t really square with declared ministerial policy, with Trump’s current mindset, or, indeed, with the day-to-day IDF military campaign.
While Netanyahu speaks in generalities about: 1. relentless progress in the campaign to destroy Hamas, 2. insisting that absolute victory is at hand, 3. and deriding his critics
far-right ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben Gvir, without whom Netanyahu would lose power, specifically advocate: 1. the morally untenable and unworkable departure of Gaza’s population to places unknown, 2. the permanent Israeli occupation of the Strip, 3. and the renewal of Jewish settlement there.
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125426
06/11/25 07:51 PM
06/11/25 07:51 PM
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Trojan
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Trump in February delighted the far right by calling for the enforced removal of Gazans, though even that initial plan envisioned a US takeover of the Strip, rather than Israel’s permanent reoccupation and settlement there.
He has gradually changed tack, however, first switching to a call for Gazans’ voluntary relocation, then dropping talk of moving Gazans out and instead focusing on concern for their well-being and the need to ensure they receive humanitarian aid.
This week, he reportedly told Netanyahu to just sign a deal already — to try and get back all the hostages and end the war, potentially reviving regional normalization efforts and isolating Iran.
If the disconnect is apparently widening between the US president and the Israeli prime minister — on Gaza, as well as on how to tackle near-nuclear Iran — the disconnect between the Israeli government and the IDF is a minute-by-minute concern.
As ordered by the political echelon, the military is deepening its physical control of Gaza.
It controlled 40% of the Strip when the last hostage-truce framework collapsed in March. It now holds some 50%, military sources say, and its declared goal is to take control of 75%, with the two million-plus Gazans largely concentrated in three mainly coastal mini-enclaves.
And then what? As far as repeated questioning of military sources can establish, the IDF actually doesn’t know.
Expanding its areas of control involves the IDF: 1. ordering civilian evacuations and then cleaning out the evacuated areas, 2. blowing up tunnels and booby-trapped buildings, 3. confronting those Hamas gunmen who have not slipped away with the non-combatants to the ostensibly safe zones, 4. and then staying put to await further orders.
Smotrich and Ben Gvir anticipate that the IDF will remain in perpetuity, to safeguard the eventual return of Jewish settlers.
For his part, Netanyahu used to speak about: 1. a “day after” in Gaza in which Hamas would be eliminated as a fighting force, 2. Gaza would be demilitarized, 3. the Gaza populace would be deradicalized and re-educated to the point where the threat of further October 7 atrocities was alleviated, 4. and an alternate governing mechanism would be enabled.
But he has since adopted Trump’s “relocate Gazans” plan, even as the US president has moved away from it.
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Re: Israel: 'State of war'
[Re: Hollander]
#1125427
06/11/25 07:55 PM
06/11/25 07:55 PM
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Trojan
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Some military sources speculate that the IDF may eventually be asked to oversee a controlled return of the Gaza populace to their largely ruined home areas, under a process that would necessitate screening the returnees to ensure that Hamas forces do not simply come back with them. However nice in theory, the idea is impractical. The IDF is not capable of controlling, much less screening, large masses of civilians. Evidence of that inability has been a terrible daily reality these past few weeks, with dozens upon dozens of Gazans reported killed in the areas surrounding the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation’s aid distribution hubs. Military sources have insisted, as regards most of these incidents, that IDF troops have not fired inside, at or immediately outside the distribution points, but acknowledge firing “warning shots” when facing large crowds of Gazans heading toward the aid hubs outside the designated routes and outside the designated opening hours. As far as the aid is concerned, the IDF has taken responsibility for safeguarding the GHF operation — in a framework that supersedes the UN, and thus renders Israel the prime responsible address for the feeding of Gazans. But it is not trained or equipped to fully do so. The result is that a hurriedly constructed program, intended to prevent Hamas’s ongoing looting of aid, is proving bloody and intermittently unworkable in practice, with Hamas predictably doing everything in its power to destroy the effort, and the IDF facing off against huge crowds of desperate Gazans.  Hamas Sill standing Still firing Still calling the shots  Hamas must not be allowed to reconstitute itself. Even now: 1. it maintains a rule of fear in parts of Gaza, 2. is able to loose off the occasional rocket, 3. and can drop the occasional explosive drone on troops. 4. Its “destroy Israel” ambition is undimmed. Ending this war would and should not mean ending the battle against Hamas; it will, without doubt, provide Israel with innumerable essential reasons to relentlessly target it in the future, and Israel will know better than to encourage Qatar to fund it.
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