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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#1069180
09/15/23 05:37 AM
09/15/23 05:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
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Genovese when fled to Italy become friend with Galeazzo Ciano the son in law of mussolini and rumors say that Genovese become the Ciano cocaine supplier. After donate 100K dollars to the fascista party and help build the Casa of Fascio in Nola his hometown was made commendatore by Mussolini. During the 1943 he did profitable business on the black market and with bribes to the allied governor Poletti for whom he was officially the interpreter.
Fun fact
My university had a branch office in Nola where I did my first 3 years of university and the office was actually the former Casa del Fascio built by Genovese.
Thats right and thanks for the info about the building Fur. Btw, several years ago I went to Napoli and I saw one street which was named Genovese with huge letters, and when i googled it, i couldnt find the street on maps but instead it gave me the famous "alla Genovese food" and reminded me that I saw many taverns and restaurants in that same area.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Hollander]
#1069190
09/15/23 06:59 AM
09/15/23 06:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
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When he came up Vito was close to the Navy Street Gang (Camorra). The Neapolitans, based in Brooklyn and Coney Island, fought for control of the New York rackets. Eventually decimated when it’s own members turned against them. Anthony Paretti was electrocuted under the jurisdiction of the state of New York on 17th February, 1927 at the age of 35. One of the last men to visit Paretti before his death was a young Genovese. Thanks for the remind @H regarding that alleged Camorra leader.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Hollander]
#1069194
09/15/23 07:36 AM
09/15/23 07:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
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Truth be told, during his time as Lucky's #2 man, Vito Genovese was arguably the most important "underboss" NYC had ever seen. Yes and him being Neapolitan also helped the Sicilian family. Agreed. It made the former Masseria Family even stronger and more influential because aside from their Sicilian roots, the future Luciano/Genovese Family was viewed and widely accepted as the "voice" for the Napolitani and Calabrese factions as well. Not only in NY, but throughout the entire country.
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Toodoped]
#1069195
09/15/23 08:05 AM
09/15/23 08:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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Genovese when fled to Italy become friend with Galeazzo Ciano the son in law of mussolini and rumors say that Genovese become the Ciano cocaine supplier. After donate 100K dollars to the fascista party and help build the Casa of Fascio in Nola his hometown was made commendatore by Mussolini. During the 1943 he did profitable business on the black market and with bribes to the allied governor Poletti for whom he was officially the interpreter.
Fun fact
My university had a branch office in Nola where I did my first 3 years of university and the office was actually the former Casa del Fascio built by Genovese.
Thats right and thanks for the info about the building Fur. Btw, several years ago I went to Napoli and I saw one street which was named Genovese with huge letters, and when i googled it, i couldnt find the street on maps but instead it gave me the famous "alla Genovese food" and reminded me that I saw many taverns and restaurants in that same area. Perhaps it is via Antonio Genovesi, an Enlightenment philosopher of the 1700s. Genovese and Genovesi is spelled in the same way in english.
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#1069201
09/15/23 09:45 AM
09/15/23 09:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758
Underground
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Genovese when fled to Italy become friend with Galeazzo Ciano the son in law of mussolini and rumors say that Genovese become the Ciano cocaine supplier. After donate 100K dollars to the fascista party and help build the Casa of Fascio in Nola his hometown was made commendatore by Mussolini. During the 1943 he did profitable business on the black market and with bribes to the allied governor Poletti for whom he was officially the interpreter.
Fun fact
My university had a branch office in Nola where I did my first 3 years of university and the office was actually the former Casa del Fascio built by Genovese.
Thats right and thanks for the info about the building Fur. Btw, several years ago I went to Napoli and I saw one street which was named Genovese with huge letters, and when i googled it, i couldnt find the street on maps but instead it gave me the famous "alla Genovese food" and reminded me that I saw many taverns and restaurants in that same area. Perhaps it is via Antonio Genovesi, an Enlightenment philosopher of the 1700s. Genovese and Genovesi is spelled in the same way in english. Thanks again bud.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Toodoped]
#1069204
09/15/23 10:05 AM
09/15/23 10:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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Genovese when fled to Italy become friend with Galeazzo Ciano the son in law of mussolini and rumors say that Genovese become the Ciano cocaine supplier. After donate 100K dollars to the fascista party and help build the Casa of Fascio in Nola his hometown was made commendatore by Mussolini. During the 1943 he did profitable business on the black market and with bribes to the allied governor Poletti for whom he was officially the interpreter.
Fun fact
My university had a branch office in Nola where I did my first 3 years of university and the office was actually the former Casa del Fascio built by Genovese.
Thats right and thanks for the info about the building Fur. Btw, several years ago I went to Napoli and I saw one street which was named Genovese with huge letters, and when i googled it, i couldnt find the street on maps but instead it gave me the famous "alla Genovese food" and reminded me that I saw many taverns and restaurants in that same area. Perhaps it is via Antonio Genovesi, an Enlightenment philosopher of the 1700s. Genovese and Genovesi is spelled in the same way in english. Thanks again bud.
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Hollander]
#1069206
09/15/23 12:13 PM
09/15/23 12:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
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@NYM any info on his brothers Michael and Carmine who were also made guys? In 1980s a nephew was shot dead in Naples he was the son of? I wrote a very extensive and in-depth biography about Vito's brother Michael, who was a goodfella. Its on our ButtonGuys website, under the link for the Genovese Family. They called him "Compare Mike" or "Goomba Mike" in corrupted street slang. I wrote his bio because I had never seen one done on him before and I thought he would be a very interesting subject. As far as Carmine goes, he also was affiliated with Vito, but I do not believe he was an inducted member.
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069226
09/15/23 06:33 PM
09/15/23 06:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
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Thanks NYM !
Mafia Leader Killed Near Naples
June 16, 1981
New York Times Vincenzo Genovese, the nephew of the late American crime figure Vito Genovese and the most powerful Mafia leader in the area south of Naples, was shot to death today as he was driving a sports car near this southern Italian city, the police reported. Mr. Genovese, 43, headed an extortion racket linked with the Raffaele Cutolo family of Naples, the police said.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069252
09/15/23 07:56 PM
09/15/23 07:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
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Wow so his nephew was part of the Camorra. Still to this day the Genovese Family has members from that part of Italy. Yes Vincent Gigante had also ties to Naples. After finishing school, Gigante began working as a professional boxer, fighting a total of 25 matches between 1944 and 1947; following physical injuries Gigante ends his boxing career early and joins Lucky Luciano 's mafia family . Gigante is the fifth of five brothers: Mario, Pasquale, Ralph and Luigi, all, with the exception of the latter, enlisted as men of the Genovese family. Absorbed in the role of Vito Genovese 's personal driver ,he will be entrusted with the task of killing Frank Costello , who however fails. After serving a sentence for heroin trafficking, during which he also shares a cell with former boss Vito Genovese , Gigante becomes caporegime of the same Genovese family, running their own mobster group in the Greenwich Village area .
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Toodoped]
#1069426
09/18/23 06:40 AM
09/18/23 06:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
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There used to be many mobsters in the past who used the crazy act only during trials, like constantly screaming or came to the courtroom completely naked. But it seems that Gigante played the crazy act constantly, especially in public. So I have two questions...
1. Which year or decade Gigante started his crazy act?
2. Was Gigante the first and only American made member or boss who did the crazy act on daily basis? --- 1. He started his crazy act during the 1960s in NJ. I believe he checked into a hospital for his first "tune up" around 1969 or so. Possibly earlier. 2. Yes, to my knowledge, he was the only top member or boss to ever pull a "crazy act" on a daily or constant basis.
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: NYMafia]
#1069428
09/18/23 06:45 AM
09/18/23 06:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
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Underground
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There used to be many mobsters in the past who used the crazy act only during trials, like constantly screaming or came to the courtroom completely naked. But it seems that Gigante played the crazy act constantly, especially in public. So I have two questions...
1. Which year or decade Gigante started his crazy act?
2. Was Gigante the first and only American made member or boss who did the crazy act on daily basis? --- 1. He started his crazy act during the 1960s in NJ. I believe he checked into a hospital for his first "tune up" around 1969 or so. Possibly earlier. 2. Yes, to my knowledge, he was the only top member or boss to ever pull a "crazy act" on a daily or constant basis. Thanks a lot bud. I wonder how he developed the idea regarding the crazy act? I mean he was with Vito who in turn never did such a thing, including Catena, Miranda or Lombardo. Except for Costello who allegedly went to a psychiatrist.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069430
09/18/23 07:06 AM
09/18/23 07:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
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Speaking frankly, on review, Gigante's crazy act did not serve him well....at all.
Because, essentially, he implemented a 'self-imposed' exile on himself into the shadows, where he was forced to live like a virtual recluse...a stumble bum if you will, on a 24/7 basis, for many decades.
If you wanna walk around in a bathrobe all day, every day, with your hair disheveled, unshaved, unbathed, and have to travel in car trunks for appointments, etc. Then have at it. Lol
I, for one, could never, would never, stoop to such ridiculous levels for anything! You really gotta stop and ask yourself, what kind of life was that? Was it worth it?
And the answer to that question is an unequivocal no! It was NOT worth it.
He couldn't go out in public to restaurants and clubs, couldn't go on vacation with his wife and kids, couldn't even be seen dressed nicely or driving a car. He had to act like an unhinged "brain dead" zombie 99% of the time.
Because, at the end of the day, he ended up going to prison anyway and dying behind bars. WTF?
What kind of a life was that? He entire charade and life was a waste.
I'd rather just do my bid and hit the street again and go live my life. Lol
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: NYMafia]
#1069436
09/18/23 07:21 AM
09/18/23 07:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758
Underground
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Speaking frankly, on review, Gigante's crazy act did not serve him well....at all.
Because, essentially, he implemented a 'self-imposed' exile on himself into the shadows, where he was forced to live like a virtual recluse...a stumble bum if you will, on a 24/7 basis, for many decades.
If you wanna walk around in a bathrobe all day, every day, with your hair disheveled, unshaved, unbathed, and have to travel in car trunks for appointments, etc. Then have at it. Lol
I, for one, could never, would never, stoop to such ridiculous levels for anything! You really gotta stop and ask yourself, what kind of life was that? Was it worth it?
And the answer to that question is an unequivocal no! It was NOT worth it.
He couldn't go out in public to restaurants and clubs, couldn't go on vacation with his wife and kids, couldn't even be seen dressed nicely or driving a car. He had to act like an unhinged "brain dead" zombie 99% of the time.
Because, at the end of the day, he ended up going to prison anyway and dying behind bars. WTF?
What kind of a life was that? He entire charade and life was a waste.
I'd rather just do my bid and hit the street again and go live my life. Lol
Nicely said and I agree with you 100%. Although it somehow reminds me to an extent regarding similar situation when Italian bosses like Riina or Provenzano acted as simple villagers. I mean, look at where they found Provenzano?! Was it worth it? Obviously not. But we must not forget that some of those guys were fanatics when it came down to Cosa Nostra and its ideology. When Buscetta was confronted with Riina, the only thing which Riina said was that he didnt want to talk to someone who had too many wives and allegedly had no morals, while Buscetta answered that Riina didnt care about anything except for the control over whole CN with his fanatic ideas. Buscetta allegedly once stated that some CN capos died penniless only because of their "true" belief in the rules of the organization. So my point is that Gigante mightve been the prime example of a "hardcore" or fanatic believer in the Cosa Nostra ideology.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Toodoped]
#1069439
09/18/23 07:25 AM
09/18/23 07:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,514
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Speaking frankly, on review, Gigante's crazy act did not serve him well....at all.
Because, essentially, he implemented a 'self-imposed' exile on himself into the shadows, where he was forced to live like a virtual recluse...a stumble bum if you will, on a 24/7 basis, for many decades.
If you wanna walk around in a bathrobe all day, every day, with your hair disheveled, unshaved, unbathed, and have to travel in car trunks for appointments, etc. Then have at it. Lol
I, for one, could never, would never, stoop to such ridiculous levels for anything! You really gotta stop and ask yourself, what kind of life was that? Was it worth it?
And the answer to that question is an unequivocal no! It was NOT worth it.
He couldn't go out in public to restaurants and clubs, couldn't go on vacation with his wife and kids, couldn't even be seen dressed nicely or driving a car. He had to act like an unhinged "brain dead" zombie 99% of the time.
Because, at the end of the day, he ended up going to prison anyway and dying behind bars. WTF?
What kind of a life was that? He entire charade and life was a waste.
I'd rather just do my bid and hit the street again and go live my life. Lol
Nicely said and I agree with you 100%. Although it somehow reminds me to a similar situation when Italian bosses like Riina or Provenzano acted as simple villagers. I mean, look at where they found Provenzano?! Was it worth it? Obviously not. But we must not forget that some of those guys were fanatics when it came down to Cosa Nostra and its ideology. When Buscetta was confronted with Riina, the only thing which Riina said was that he didnt want to talk to someone who had too many wives and allegedly had no morals, while Buscetta answered that Riina didnt care about anything except for the control over whole CN with his fanatic ideas. Buscetta allegedly once stated that some CN capos died peniless only because of their "true" belief in the rules of the organization. So my point is that Gigante mightve been the prime example of a "hardcore" or fanatic believer in the Cosa Nostra ideology. Oh, no doubt about it. Chin Gigante was. And thats a good analogy you gave about Provenzano, Riina, and so many others that live like hermits or slugs as cave dwellers for decades at a time. Truth be told, its simply nuts! lol
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069441
09/18/23 07:32 AM
09/18/23 07:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
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Underground
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Dude, if you honestly believe that Bernardo Provenzano spent 4 decades on that island you're crazy. They found evidence that Matteo Messina Denaro traveled extensively during his 3 decades on the run, and with Provenzano being loose a decade longer I'm sure the same could be said of him. First of all if you have the power, money, and resources to remain a fugitive for a virtual lifetime then you also have the means to travel nationally and internationally if need be. I get you but i think theres a difference between Provenzano's and Denaro's situations.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: NYMafia]
#1069443
09/18/23 07:37 AM
09/18/23 07:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758
Underground
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Speaking frankly, on review, Gigante's crazy act did not serve him well....at all.
Because, essentially, he implemented a 'self-imposed' exile on himself into the shadows, where he was forced to live like a virtual recluse...a stumble bum if you will, on a 24/7 basis, for many decades.
If you wanna walk around in a bathrobe all day, every day, with your hair disheveled, unshaved, unbathed, and have to travel in car trunks for appointments, etc. Then have at it. Lol
I, for one, could never, would never, stoop to such ridiculous levels for anything! You really gotta stop and ask yourself, what kind of life was that? Was it worth it?
And the answer to that question is an unequivocal no! It was NOT worth it.
He couldn't go out in public to restaurants and clubs, couldn't go on vacation with his wife and kids, couldn't even be seen dressed nicely or driving a car. He had to act like an unhinged "brain dead" zombie 99% of the time.
Because, at the end of the day, he ended up going to prison anyway and dying behind bars. WTF?
What kind of a life was that? He entire charade and life was a waste.
I'd rather just do my bid and hit the street again and go live my life. Lol
Nicely said and I agree with you 100%. Although it somehow reminds me to a similar situation when Italian bosses like Riina or Provenzano acted as simple villagers. I mean, look at where they found Provenzano?! Was it worth it? Obviously not. But we must not forget that some of those guys were fanatics when it came down to Cosa Nostra and its ideology. When Buscetta was confronted with Riina, the only thing which Riina said was that he didnt want to talk to someone who had too many wives and allegedly had no morals, while Buscetta answered that Riina didnt care about anything except for the control over whole CN with his fanatic ideas. Buscetta allegedly once stated that some CN capos died peniless only because of their "true" belief in the rules of the organization. So my point is that Gigante mightve been the prime example of a "hardcore" or fanatic believer in the Cosa Nostra ideology. Oh, no doubt about it. Chin Gigante was. And thats a good analogy you gave about Provenzano, Riina, and so many others that live like hermits or slugs as cave dwellers for decades at a time. Truth be told, its simply nuts! lol +1
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069446
09/18/23 08:01 AM
09/18/23 08:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
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If you mean a difference in old-school vs new-school, I'll agree with you. I don't think Provenzano traveled to the extent that Messina Denaro did That was my point and thanks for understanding. Even when they were still "freely" active, Riina and Provenzano lived almost like villagers and didnt move around much. And when they became prime targets of the government, they still continued living like that. Again, Im not saying they didnt move around but their mentality was different then Denaro's who in turn grew up differently and also saw the situation from a different point of view then the old timers.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Liggio]
#1069448
09/18/23 08:19 AM
09/18/23 08:19 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,758 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
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Also keep in mind that only the part of the government that's not in the Mafia's pockets were truly after them, the other part protected them. Again, I completely agree.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Vito Genovese is actually underrated
[Re: Toodoped]
#1069454
09/18/23 12:25 PM
09/18/23 12:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 24,479
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There used to be many mobsters in the past who used the crazy act only during trials, like constantly screaming or came to the courtroom completely naked. But it seems that Gigante played the crazy act constantly, especially in public. So I have two questions...
1. Which year or decade Gigante started his crazy act?
2. Was Gigante the first and only American made member or boss who did the crazy act on daily basis? IDK in the US but in 2017 the last Italian judicial psychiatric hospitals which housed mafia bosses were emptied. Italian judicial psychiatric hospitals are to be completely emptied. Yesterday the forensic inpatient unit of Montelupo Fiorentino was definitely closed. In Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto, the former largest judicial psychiatric hospital in Italy, there are only 13 internee left, who in the coming days will be sent to therapeutic communities. The complex, located in the Sicily region, 40 kilometers from Messina, housed in the past over 600 internees. When it was a judicial psychiatric hospital it received also mafia bosses who pretended to be mentally ill, in order to obtain reductions in their sentences.
Last edited by Hollander; 09/18/23 12:27 PM.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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