Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
In all fairness, Iceveins makes a very solid point. And that one doesn't only ring true for the USA. I'd even go as far as saying that for any First World nation "organized crime" as we once knew it is done.

Is "organized criminal activity" still happening as we speak? Of course it is. Illegal drugs are still being brought in and sold, people are still taking illegal bets and loans, girls are still being forced into prostitution, people are still being extorted, etc... That will never go away. There'll always be people willing to choose that path and wherever there's a pervasive history of organized criminal activity there'll always be younger guys wanting to follow the footsteps of their predecessors. Doesn't matter how many other opportunities are available.

However, can you truthfully say that the imprint of criminal organizations is still as far reaching, still as influential when it comes to the social dynamics, still as ingrained in the very fabric of a city...as it once was? I highly doubt it.

In NYC, do you still see wiseguys openly being treated as royalty in any historic Italian American neighborhood? Can you still spot a vibrant social club?
Can you show me where to spot the Russian/Ukrainian/Jewish gangsters in Brighton Beach?

And even when we're not talking about the USA;
London for instance was well known for having big time crime families that wielded power over their manor and had the local police on their payroll. Everybody knew their faces, everybody knew who the local "hard men" were and locals came to them when they were in need of something. Much like the mafia. That kind of visible out-in-the-open interaction between "civilians" and "gangsters" isn't there anymore. And you can make the same case for Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Nottingham...for that matter.
In Hong Kong in the 90's you used to have neighborhoods and markets where Triad members were openly running things. I was in Hong Kong a few years ago in those very neighborhoods and Triad members were nowhere to be seen.
In Tokyo or Kobe the Yakuza has become a ghostly presence much like LCN has become on the East Coast.
In Amsterdam local underworld figures used to associate in tourist areas. Not anymore.
Hamburg, Copenhagen, Stockholm...all used to be the decor of property visibly and openly owned by outlaw motorcycle gangs. That's not the case today.

Forget about the first world.
If you've been to Moscow in the last ten years even in a notoriously corrupt country like Russia it's clear that it's not the 90's anymore. You don't have Russian, Chechen, Georgian, Armenian or Azerbaijani gangsters ruling their respective communities with an iron fist any longer. They're completely out of the public view.
In Turkey you don't have people kissing the rings of their Black Sea or Kurdish "babas" in public anymore like they used to in the 80's and 90's.

None of those group mentioned above completely disappeared, but all of them basically had to go underground. The pervasive control and influence over their respective areas has waned. You can see underworld figures being on the run every day. Gangsters have a solid run of a few years, get nicked, get out, repeat. These days they're not the larger than life characters they used to be. Not even in the most "ghetto"-like areas out there. Of course criminal organizations still exist, but they're getting busted all the time.

It's not worth it anymore. It's over.
Nailed it.

World history has always had eras, phases and periods, some of which are unbelievable to imagine actually existed. The balance of law and crime has seen peaks and valleys for as long as civilizations have existed and there was once a glorious time for gangsters but in this current phase, organized crime cannot thrive. However the only thing certain in the world is that periods and collective mindsets change and there may be a time where organized crime regains their power and influence in the future, although probably not in our lifetimes.

Last edited by Iceveins; 01/27/23 08:00 PM.