Originally Posted by Dob_Peppino


Luciano had power full allies and throughout the 1920s he made connections throughout the country. But ultimately and although he was a Sicilian, essentially, Luciano came up from the streets of New York. Just like Frank Costello, Vito Genovese, Al Capone, Albert Anastasia, and many others. But the Mafia comes from Sicily. The Sicilian had presence before and Long after Luciano.
Originally Posted by OakAsFan
We just have a different idea of what it means to win a war. Anyhow, interesting points. Thanks for the discussion.


Luciano was off the street by 1936 while Bonanno went another 20 years. The Castellamarese were strong until around 1958. One of the pilliars of american Cosa Nostra is the idea of negotiation or " The Sitdown". Ultimately, in 1931, all the Underworld powers aligned to make money. They all won. That's Cosa Nostra


Again, it's just our differing ideas of what it means to win a war. Bonanno was around, but who was he? All roads went through Costello/Anastasia, then later Gambino/Lucchese/Westside panel. Who went to Bonanno for anything other than underlings in his own family? Heck, his own faction, considering a mutiny was talking hold in his family? The real power has been with the Americanized faction since Lucky, with Palermo and Corleone having the most pull within this Americanized faction, by way of respecting and acknowledging its dominance in the states. The Castellammarese power-wise were for all intents and purposes done when Maranzano went down.

Edit: I should also add, I like Joe Bonanno, probably more than any other mobster. I enjoyed his book despite some of the embellishments and cover ups, but the way he talked shit about the greed of the Americanized mobsters was spot-on. He was right about a lot of things. I should say, for better or worse, the Americanized faction won.

Last edited by OakAsFan; 02/12/22 03:02 PM.

"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea