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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021873
10/16/21 10:30 AM
10/16/21 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
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I agree that it's a significant factor, but it's not THE factor. The Pittsburgh mob would've went extinct anyway, they weren't recruiting any fresh blood and the remnants died from old age. They simply went the way of the dinosaurs. Agree. Michael didn't actively recruit any fresh blood but Henry told me with Rico and all, who wants to be made. However, after decades of refusing to be made, Henry had to be made when he took over Youngstown.
Last edited by Friend_of_Henry; 10/16/21 10:33 AM.
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021875
10/16/21 12:15 PM
10/16/21 12:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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I agree that it's a significant factor, but it's not THE factor. The Pittsburgh mob would've went extinct anyway, they weren't recruiting any fresh blood and the remnants died from old age. They simply went the way of the dinosaurs. Agree. Michael didn't actively recruit any fresh blood but Henry told me with Rico and all, who wants to be made. However, after decades of refusing to be made, Henry had to be made when he took over Youngstown. Until the 1980s get made had many advantages,first of the one that your boss must gave the ok to whack you and expecially if you was a good earner or had a powerful capo that speak in your difence (like Dellacroce with Gotti) you was safe;second the old school mobsters or the zips would never trust an associate even if was italian. Now it only a target on your back and many associates that have nothing to prove can easky refuse to be made while years ago a refuse would be a death sentence.
Last edited by furio_from_naples; 10/16/21 12:16 PM.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021881
10/16/21 02:27 PM
10/16/21 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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You're right, but if no one ever gets made or initiated into something then basically what you have are a bunch of freelance criminals who doesn't belong to anything, and no pecking order. It's more chaotic, because who's going to listen to who? There's really no mob without that initiation ceremony. The American Mafia isnt a mafia from long time,apart few old wiseguys the many part are only american guys with an italian surname,they forgot the italian language so the oath its just empty words nobody remenber how would be live in the poor italian neighborhoods,the US mafia is an empty shell,and you think that the problem is the initiation ceremony?
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021896
10/16/21 07:27 PM
10/16/21 07:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
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There are many reasons why Cosa Nostra is no where near what it once was. But in my humble opinion the single biggest and most important reason why the brotherhood isn't the same any longer is because the same "need" and "drive" are no longer there by which to propel the organization's engine.
During the early history of Italian migration to this country we were dirt poor. Dirt poor! And Cosa Nostra was all around us in our neighborhood, and often times in our very own blood families. It became viewed by many as one of the easiest, best, and fastest ways out of the ghettos we lived in and the easiest way for upward mobility. It provided a network which not only protected the member from outsiders who would do him harm, but also afforded ways of getting into money making schemes to earn with, with little chance of meaningful penalties.
With little formal education, and no money, no opportunities for success, tremendous prejudice against Italians, and limited other resources, the mob was a truly great option for many.
But in the year 2021, more than a century later, Italians are mostly college educated. Many Italians have advanced degrees in law, medicine, political science, finance, etc., and have reached the highest pinnacles of their chosen profession. And "profession" is a key word here. No longer are the Italians only "blue collar' workers. Many live in multimillion dollar mansions. send their children to their finest private schools, and are considered very comfortably tucked into the so-called "American Dream" tenfold over.
My own children are perfect examples of that success and upward mobility. One of my sons is a lawyer, and a daughter is in the medical profession. My nephew is a stock broker. Another nephew is also in medical school. Other younger members in the family are extremely successful private business people who own their own companies...I am an extremely proud papa and uncle to say the least. Yet, years back, some of our older relatives were "in the life."
But the big difference here is that the elders in our family always encouraged the kids toward legitimacy and legal businesses. Mob life was not glamorized as it is in some families. Plain and simply put, it was "but a means to an end."
My grandfather, uncles, and father all talked the talk with us, but they also walked the walk. They paid for college tuitions, graduate schools (med school, law school, etc), which of course provided the children with a tremendous "leg up" so to speak for their futures. And for the kids who didn't want to go into a profession per se, my family either brought them into legal businesses we owned, or provided the finances to purchase a business, or to open up one from the ground up. -- Today there is little need, and even less desire, to "devolve" back into the streets. Couple that with the draconian laws of Rico and other harsh penal laws now on the books where offenders see jail terms handed to them in the double-digits, that years earlier would have resulted in a mere monetary fine and/or a short 30 days to 2-3 years behind bars at best (if jail was even meted out to begin with), and the reader starts to understand the lack of allure of the underworld today for young Italian men.
The smartest and brightest "bulbs" of our Italian lot were long ago were redirected to achieve more than a so-called "button." Often times by grandfathers, fathers, uncles, cousins, etc., who were themselves "in" the life and did what they did, so that their future bloodline and loved ones would never again have to deal in that!...And THATS the Gods honest unadulterated truth. - I'm sorry to say that the ONLY young Italians drawn to "the life" nowadays are the absolute uneducated "cafone," or those who don't know any better. Or are lost souls without direction. They look at old gangster movies and become enamored with a false narrative that is no longer a "thing" (if it ever truly was a thing to begin with). And most lack proper parental guidance. Their parents are imbeciles along with them, so how could the children wise up? If they have no one to wisely advise them. --- I wrote several very extensive opinion pieces on this very subject. When TNYM is re-launched, I suggest those interested to visit our site and search out the articles. They will be listed under "Feature Articles"
Last edited by NYMafia; 10/16/21 07:42 PM.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1021920
10/17/21 02:05 PM
10/17/21 02:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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There are many reasons why Cosa Nostra is no where near what it once was. But in my humble opinion the single biggest and most important reason why the brotherhood isn't the same any longer is because the same "need" and "drive" are no longer there by which to propel the organization's engine.
During the early history of Italian migration to this country we were dirt poor. Dirt poor! And Cosa Nostra was all around us in our neighborhood, and often times in our very own blood families. It became viewed by many as one of the easiest, best, and fastest ways out of the ghettos we lived in and the easiest way for upward mobility. It provided a network which not only protected the member from outsiders who would do him harm, but also afforded ways of getting into money making schemes to earn with, with little chance of meaningful penalties.
With little formal education, and no money, no opportunities for success, tremendous prejudice against Italians, and limited other resources, the mob was a truly great option for many.
But in the year 2021, more than a century later, Italians are mostly college educated. Many Italians have advanced degrees in law, medicine, political science, finance, etc., and have reached the highest pinnacles of their chosen profession. And "profession" is a key word here. No longer are the Italians only "blue collar' workers. Many live in multimillion dollar mansions. send their children to their finest private schools, and are considered very comfortably tucked into the so-called "American Dream" tenfold over.
My own children are perfect examples of that success and upward mobility. One of my sons is a lawyer, and a daughter is in the medical profession. My nephew is a stock broker. Another nephew is also in medical school. Other younger members in the family are extremely successful private business people who own their own companies...I am an extremely proud papa and uncle to say the least. Yet, years back, some of our older relatives were "in the life."
But the big difference here is that the elders in our family always encouraged the kids toward legitimacy and legal businesses. Mob life was not glamorized as it is in some families. Plain and simply put, it was "but a means to an end."
My grandfather, uncles, and father all talked the talk with us, but they also walked the walk. They paid for college tuitions, graduate schools (med school, law school, etc), which of course provided the children with a tremendous "leg up" so to speak for their futures. And for the kids who didn't want to go into a profession per se, my family either brought them into legal businesses we owned, or provided the finances to purchase a business, or to open up one from the ground up. -- Today there is little need, and even less desire, to "devolve" back into the streets. Couple that with the draconian laws of Rico and other harsh penal laws now on the books where offenders see jail terms handed to them in the double-digits, that years earlier would have resulted in a mere monetary fine and/or a short 30 days to 2-3 years behind bars at best (if jail was even meted out to begin with), and the reader starts to understand the lack of allure of the underworld today for young Italian men.
The smartest and brightest "bulbs" of our Italian lot were long ago were redirected to achieve more than a so-called "button." Often times by grandfathers, fathers, uncles, cousins, etc., who were themselves "in" the life and did what they did, so that their future bloodline and loved ones would never again have to deal in that!...And THATS the Gods honest unadulterated truth. - I'm sorry to say that the ONLY young Italians drawn to "the life" nowadays are the absolute uneducated "cafone," or those who don't know any better. Or are lost souls without direction. They look at old gangster movies and become enamored with a false narrative that is no longer a "thing" (if it ever truly was a thing to begin with). And most lack proper parental guidance. Their parents are imbeciles along with them, so how could the children wise up? If they have no one to wisely advise them. --- I wrote several very extensive opinion pieces on this very subject. When TNYM is re-launched, I suggest those interested to visit our site and search out the articles. They will be listed under "Feature Articles"
You're righ NYMafia but in some cases was the blood family that "educate" the sons to want to get involved in the "life". The case of Basciano sons (and in my opinion what of the reason that let Vinnie Basciano to accept 2 life sentences is that his sons would have a good patch in the mob if he would keep his mouth shout) or Crea jr and so on. Now the LCN prefer to made people that had just a parent in the mob that can guarantee for him that a stranger that vould be an undercover agent. Anyway Bruno Indelicato would be free in 2023,any infos on if would have a role in the Bonannos?
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021925
10/17/21 06:19 PM
10/17/21 06:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
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Nowadays, for every one guy who encourages his kids and relatives to get involved in "the life," there's ten others doing their very best to keep them away. And that for a twofold reason. #1) the mob is a shit show today. They're all fucked up and the organization is so diminished from the strength they once had that its largely a dead end street for young people. #2) This is NOT 1940, 1955, or even the 1970s anymore, where many guys eagerly encouraged their offspring to come into the life with "poppa" because of the fast money to be made, and all the benefits to help elevate them in life. Its 2021, and most everybody who was ever anybody, and who was successful, has achieved the wealth and position in society they wanted to. They now want "better" for their children. They encourage them to go into a profession with daddy paying their tuition, or put them into a solid business with the racket money daddy earned in his lifetime.
Only the brokesters, the morons, and the real low-class "cafone" wish for their kids what they were exposed to. And THATS generally the truth today!
Last edited by NYMafia; 10/17/21 06:21 PM.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1021927
10/17/21 07:01 PM
10/17/21 07:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
DillyDolly
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
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What if they learned from many of their mistakes, I mean they've done a great job at not committing a bunch of unnecessary murders, and I don't think we will be seeing anymore bloody power struggles because of what it did to the Colombos, or any more of the treachery, paranoia, and betrayal that ripped the Luccheses apart with Amuso and Casso. And I think many of the rats we've been seeing lately are non-factor associates and little shit-sandwich soldiers like Pennisi who nobody really cares about. It is a shit show, and I don't think anyone is going to be putting their kids into the life, but many will still likely get involved on their own, I also don't think legalization means the end of the rackets. Cigarettes are legal, but there's still money to be made in selling untaxed cigarettes. Gasoline is legal, but look at the money Franzese and those guys made from selling untaxed gasoline. Gambling is legal, but we've still seen big money gambling rings busted, mobbed-up or not it's beside the point. Legal loans have ALWAYS been around, but street people and even legitimate people without credit still seek out loansharks. Point is I don't think that the rackets are in as bad of a shape as some people make it out to be, I think that when it comes to LCN they just lack the talent and the manpower to exploit those rackets to their full potential. Then you have more sophisticated scams like healthcare fraud which we've seen Farese and Truglia exploit.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021929
10/17/21 07:29 PM
10/17/21 07:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 9,468
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You're right, as you said, "the rackets are not in as bad a shape as some people make them out to be." Truthfully, they're in much WORSE shape than legitimate people make the out to be, or even understand! Much worse!
And nearly ALL those so-called rackets that once were, or that you THINK still are, are shells of their former selves, if they exist at all. Or the laws have been changed and tightened to essentially eliminate the "wiggle room" by which OC once made money at them.
Computer fraud, sophisticated financial frauds and scams still exist and can earn the perpetrators of those types of rackets immense amounts of money. Problem is, once caught, and with ANY paper scams you WILL eventually get caught. It's no longer a light bid. Nowadays wise guys (even suckers) are getting decades in jail for those types of crimes. Just look at Nicky Scarfo Jr You want a better example than that? The kid got something like 38 years in the can for a white collar fraud.
It's OVA! With all due respect, the rest of all the gibberish and hypothesis that people discuss back and forth all day on these forums is just that, nonsense and gibberish. None of it is steeped in reality.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1021938
10/18/21 08:20 AM
10/18/21 08:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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Nowadays, for every one guy who encourages his kids and relatives to get involved in "the life," there's ten others doing their very best to keep them away. And that for a twofold reason. #1) the mob is a shit show today. They're all fucked up and the organization is so diminished from the strength they once had that its largely a dead end street for young people. #2) This is NOT 1940, 1955, or even the 1970s anymore, where many guys eagerly encouraged their offspring to come into the life with "poppa" because of the fast money to be made, and all the benefits to help elevate them in life. Its 2021, and most everybody who was ever anybody, and who was successful, has achieved the wealth and position in society they wanted to. They now want "better" for their children. They encourage them to go into a profession with daddy paying their tuition, or put them into a solid business with the racket money daddy earned in his lifetime.
Only the brokesters, the morons, and the real low-class "cafone" wish for their kids what they were exposed to. And THATS generally the truth today! NYMafia Im referring only to mobsters that are in the life,not to all the Italian Americans. The Snake Persico ruined his son live and for sure Teddy Persico will die in prison soon or latter as Scarpa sr made with his son etc And there are still wannabes that will follow his father's patch in the mob.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021977
10/19/21 11:14 AM
10/19/21 11:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 359 Providence, RI
The_Marble_Guy
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 359
Providence, RI
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I would think the Decavalcante’s would be in a position to recruit vs. say the Patriarca’s where I just don’t see a pool to choose from. At least not in RI.
" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "
Jerry Tillinghast
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: DillyDolly]
#1021993
10/19/21 12:05 PM
10/19/21 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
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I'm somewhat surprised that guys are still being made. Not saying that they aren't, just surprised as the last I knew of anyone being made was a over a couple of decades ago. Does anyone know if there is still an old fashion "Making Ceremony" and are the same "Rules and Regulations" still required?
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: ralphie_cifaretto]
#1022026
10/19/21 03:24 PM
10/19/21 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 808
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I'm somewhat surprised that guys are still being made. Not saying that they aren't, just surprised as the last I knew of anyone being made was a over a couple of decades ago. Does anyone know if there is still an old fashion "Making Ceremony" and are the same "Rules and Regulations" still required? In New York, they're making people every year. A family will usually hold one every two or three years. Sometimes there's only a year between ceremonies and sometimes there's two ceremonies in the same year. The West Side on the other hand tends to wait 5-7 years between each ceremony, but they're also inducting up to 20 guys each time. I'm in no way trying to be adversarial, but how does anyone other than those being made and by whos making them know there's still guys being made? It's not like invitations are sent out or ads in the newspaper or billboards saying Joe Stugotz is now a Made Man. Again, I'm not trying to cause some shit, I'm just asking what I think is a legit question.
Last edited by Friend_of_Henry; 10/19/21 03:25 PM.
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#1022032
10/19/21 05:08 PM
10/19/21 05:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,911
ralphie_cifaretto
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,911
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I'm somewhat surprised that guys are still being made. Not saying that they aren't, just surprised as the last I knew of anyone being made was a over a couple of decades ago. Does anyone know if there is still an old fashion "Making Ceremony" and are the same "Rules and Regulations" still required? In New York, they're making people every year. A family will usually hold one every two or three years. Sometimes there's only a year between ceremonies and sometimes there's two ceremonies in the same year. The West Side on the other hand tends to wait 5-7 years between each ceremony, but they're also inducting up to 20 guys each time. I'm in no way trying to be adversarial, but how does anyone other than those being made and by whos making them know there's still guys being made? It's not like invitations are sent out or ads in the newspaper or billboards saying Joe Stugotz is now a Made Man. Again, I'm not trying to cause some shit, I'm just asking what I think is a legit question. If you wanna know if there's still guys being made, then all you need to do is read the latest Colombo indictment from last month. One of the guys mentioned had just been proposed. So obviously they're still making guys. Most of this information is already out there.
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Re: Are Guys Still Getting Made?
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#1022034
10/19/21 05:20 PM
10/19/21 05:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,254
naples,italy
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I'm somewhat surprised that guys are still being made. Not saying that they aren't, just surprised as the last I knew of anyone being made was a over a couple of decades ago. Does anyone know if there is still an old fashion "Making Ceremony" and are the same "Rules and Regulations" still required? In New York, they're making people every year. A family will usually hold one every two or three years. Sometimes there's only a year between ceremonies and sometimes there's two ceremonies in the same year. The West Side on the other hand tends to wait 5-7 years between each ceremony, but they're also inducting up to 20 guys each time. I'm in no way trying to be adversarial, but how does anyone other than those being made and by whos making them know there's still guys being made? It's not like invitations are sent out or ads in the newspaper or billboards saying Joe Stugotz is now a Made Man. Again, I'm not trying to cause some shit, I'm just asking what I think is a legit question. Because who get made speak of the fact that was made and LE in way or another understood who get made throught the surveillance or in other manner. Plus there are dry snitchers that are paid for give to the LE the last news on the family members.
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