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When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver #1020948
09/30/21 10:18 PM
09/30/21 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline OP
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LuanKuci  Offline OP
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Any instances of the Genoveses not living up to their reputation?

The 2016 Sal Delligatti contract murder fiasco comes to mind.
Arrillotta and Fusco receiving the get go to remove Al Bruno, is another one. That crew hasn’t bounced back yet.
Vincent Esposito keeping a list of names in a safe inside his home. Or was it someone else?

Other events?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020950
09/30/21 11:28 PM
09/30/21 11:28 PM
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Michael_Giovanni Offline
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Michael_Giovanni  Offline
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There have been several.

Chin not being able to kill Costello.

Chin not listening when told Savino was a rat.

Genovese and the Appalachian meeting are a few of the well known examples.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020955
10/01/21 04:27 AM
10/01/21 04:27 AM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
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That was John Gotti Jr you are thinking of.

Their treatment of George Barone, Felix Tranghese.

Joe Valachi

There are many more, but compared to the other four families, it is low in comparison hence the nickname "Ivy League". You can name a lot during Vito Genovese reign, but still nowhere as high as the other families.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020959
10/01/21 06:24 AM
10/01/21 06:24 AM
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LuanKuci Offline OP
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LuanKuci  Offline OP
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Here’s what I was referring to:

“Esposito admitted to extorting annual payments from a United Food and Commercial Workers official from 2001 to 2017. When he was arrested in 2018, authorities raided his $12 million Upper East Side townhouse and found $3.8 million in cash, two unlicensed guns, brass knuckles and an actual list of made guys in La Cosa Nostra.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/19/notor...0buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020964
10/01/21 07:13 AM
10/01/21 07:13 AM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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That is my fault, I forgot about that. It is just Junior Gotti mess up cost alot of guys in the other families headaches when the feds raided him. That is the most embarrassing thing to happen for LCN, a few years worth of made members and some were under LE radar before those lists were discovered. Those should of been destroyed. There are instances where guys get pinched with a phone book, or rolodex with some of the actual names while most are nicknames, but list of actual made men, that is embarrassing.
Honestly if Esposito was not a good earner, or son of the Gigante, he would have been killed years ago, especially with the George Barone incident.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020965
10/01/21 07:17 AM
10/01/21 07:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,532
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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My curiosity but there are serious reasons to kill Al Bruno in 2003 or was only Arliotta and Tranchese that convinced NY to kill him for that his role as capo?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020968
10/01/21 07:47 AM
10/01/21 07:47 AM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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It was many things Furio, but Arthur Nigro pushed for it over some beef around the time Bruno and Scibello were fighting gambling charges. There was a great amount of fear that Bruno would flip, a lot of people in on the hit raised their status.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #1020972
10/01/21 08:52 AM
10/01/21 08:52 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
It was many things Furio, but Arthur Nigro pushed for it over some beef around the time Bruno and Scibello were fighting gambling charges. There was a great amount of fear that Bruno would flip, a lot of people in on the hit raised their status.


Gambling charges? So Bruno was killed for this? They killed a veteran for give the crew to to future rats. The only who doesnt rat and get life was the Geas brothers,the greeks had more honor that 2 made men.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #1020973
10/01/21 09:37 AM
10/01/21 09:37 AM
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Homers77 Offline
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Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
That is my fault, I forgot about that. It is just Junior Gotti mess up cost alot of guys in the other families headaches when the feds raided him. That is the most embarrassing thing to happen for LCN, a few years worth of made members and some were under LE radar before those lists were discovered. Those should of been destroyed. There are instances where guys get pinched with a phone book, or rolodex with some of the actual names while most are nicknames, but list of actual made men, that is embarrassing.
Honestly if Esposito was not a good earner, or son of the Gigante, he would have been killed years ago, especially with the George Barone incident.


What was the Barone incident?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020975
10/01/21 10:35 AM
10/01/21 10:35 AM
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jace Offline
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George Barone may not have been made. He may have had Alzheimers Disease in my opinion. He lied about he movie West Side Story being based on him and his friends. He was a union man that was pushed up the ranks by the Genovese Family, ad he turned on them using the usual "They did me wrong" excuse all rats use. He threw a fit in court while on the witness stand, and had some other stories which were questionable (Such as his being the inspiration for that movie) but the defense was not able to press him on it.
,

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: Michael_Giovanni] #1020976
10/01/21 10:37 AM
10/01/21 10:37 AM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael_Giovanni
There have been several.

Chin not being able to kill Costello.

Chin not listening when told Savino was a rat.

Genovese and the Appalachian meeting are a few of the well known examples.


Your first 2 are great examples, I don't know about number 3. I do think Gigante not stepping aside is another one, so the figures into several mistakes. I think Gigante in that bathrobe drew more attention than Gotti did.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020977
10/01/21 10:40 AM
10/01/21 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,532
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by Homers77
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
That is my fault, I forgot about that. It is just Junior Gotti mess up cost alot of guys in the other families headaches when the feds raided him. That is the most embarrassing thing to happen for LCN, a few years worth of made members and some were under LE radar before those lists were discovered. Those should of been destroyed. There are instances where guys get pinched with a phone book, or rolodex with some of the actual names while most are nicknames, but list of actual made men, that is embarrassing.
Honestly if Esposito was not a good earner, or son of the Gigante, he would have been killed years ago, especially with the George Barone incident.


What was the Barone incident?


Barone was born in the 1920s and controlled unions for the family when in the 1990s had the order to find a well payed job for Andrew Gigante,the mob son,in a company that Barone owned but he said no because disliked Gigante but because was a family veteran hecthinked he can say what he wanted and was angry for the lack of respect.
As an answer Barone was shelved and the boss ordered to kill him,Barone was informe by an old friend to don't go to NY because the voi e on the streets is that he's a dead man.
So Barone flipped for save his life.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: furio_from_naples] #1020979
10/01/21 10:53 AM
10/01/21 10:53 AM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by Homers77
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
That is my fault, I forgot about that. It is just Junior Gotti mess up cost alot of guys in the other families headaches when the feds raided him. That is the most embarrassing thing to happen for LCN, a few years worth of made members and some were under LE radar before those lists were discovered. Those should of been destroyed. There are instances where guys get pinched with a phone book, or rolodex with some of the actual names while most are nicknames, but list of actual made men, that is embarrassing.
Honestly if Esposito was not a good earner, or son of the Gigante, he would have been killed years ago, especially with the George Barone incident.


What was the Barone incident?


Barone was born in the 1920s and controlled unions for the family when in the 1990s had the order to find a well payed job for Andrew Gigante,the mob son,in a company that Barone owned but he said no because disliked Gigante but because was a family veteran hecthinked he can say what he wanted and was angry for the lack of respect.
As an answer Barone was shelved and the boss ordered to kill him,Barone was informe by an old friend to don't go to NY because the voi e on the streets is that he's a dead man.
So Barone flipped for save his life.



They all swear they ratted to save their life, or that they were wronged.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: jace] #1020980
10/01/21 10:56 AM
10/01/21 10:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,532
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by Homers77
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
That is my fault, I forgot about that. It is just Junior Gotti mess up cost alot of guys in the other families headaches when the feds raided him. That is the most embarrassing thing to happen for LCN, a few years worth of made members and some were under LE radar before those lists were discovered. Those should of been destroyed. There are instances where guys get pinched with a phone book, or rolodex with some of the actual names while most are nicknames, but list of actual made men, that is embarrassing.
Honestly if Esposito was not a good earner, or son of the Gigante, he would have been killed years ago, especially with the George Barone incident.


What was the Barone incident?


Barone was born in the 1920s and controlled unions for the family when in the 1990s had the order to find a well payed job for Andrew Gigante,the mob son,in a company that Barone owned but he said no because disliked Gigante but because was a family veteran hecthinked he can say what he wanted and was angry for the lack of respect.
As an answer Barone was shelved and the boss ordered to kill him,Barone was informe by an old friend to don't go to NY because the voi e on the streets is that he's a dead man.
So Barone flipped for save his life.



They all swear they ratted to save their life, or that they were wronged.


No,he really risked to ve whacked.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 10/01/21 10:57 AM.
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1020981
10/01/21 11:01 AM
10/01/21 11:01 AM
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jace Offline
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jace  Offline
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Furio, how can you know??

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: jace] #1020983
10/01/21 11:24 AM
10/01/21 11:24 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by jace
Furio, how can you know??


https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs/genovese-soldier-george-barone

“I went bad,” Barone said about his new role as government witness. “I wanted to get even. I wanted to survive. I didn't want to get killed by them,” he added, referring to Vincent Gigante and his Genovese Family. “I decided that the Mafia is not the paternal, wonderful organization that it proposes to be. The esprit de corps does not exist. Greed, violence, betrayal: that is what exists.”

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: furio_from_naples] #1020985
10/01/21 12:16 PM
10/01/21 12:16 PM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by jace
Furio, how can you know??


https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs/genovese-soldier-george-barone

“I went bad,” Barone said about his new role as government witness. “I wanted to get even. I wanted to survive. I didn't want to get killed by them,” he added, referring to Vincent Gigante and his Genovese Family. “I decided that the Mafia is not the paternal, wonderful organization that it proposes to be. The esprit de corps does not exist. Greed, violence, betrayal: that is what exists.”




They ALL say that when they rat!!! No one believes it, he was in the life till he was 85 years old, then decided that it was not as he thought?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: jace] #1020996
10/01/21 03:11 PM
10/01/21 03:11 PM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by jace
Furio, how can you know??


https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs/genovese-soldier-george-barone

“I went bad,” Barone said about his new role as government witness. “I wanted to get even. I wanted to survive. I didn't want to get killed by them,” he added, referring to Vincent Gigante and his Genovese Family. “I decided that the Mafia is not the paternal, wonderful organization that it proposes to be. The esprit de corps does not exist. Greed, violence, betrayal: that is what exists.”




They ALL say that when they rat!!! No one believes it, he was in the life till he was 85 years old, then decided that it was not as he thought?


If the other mobsters understand that they are snitching,of course they will kill them.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: furio_from_naples] #1021020
10/01/21 08:16 PM
10/01/21 08:16 PM
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jace Offline
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jace  Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples


Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by jace
Furio, how can you know??


https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs/genovese-soldier-george-barone

“I went bad,” Barone said about his new role as government witness. “I wanted to get even. I wanted to survive. I didn't want to get killed by them,” he added, referring to Vincent Gigante and his Genovese Family. “I decided that the Mafia is not the paternal, wonderful organization that it proposes to be. The esprit de corps does not exist. Greed, violence, betrayal: that is what exists.”




They ALL say that when they rat!!! No one believes it, he was in the life till he was 85 years old, then decided that it was not as he thought?


If the other mobsters understand that they are snitching,of course they will kill them.


So he was snitching before they were going to kill him?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1021036
10/02/21 02:57 AM
10/02/21 02:57 AM
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furio_from_naples Offline
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For sure if they discover that he was rat he will die. The mob doesnt kill like in the 1980s 1990s but they would kill a rat before joint the witsec.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1021110
10/03/21 06:02 AM
10/03/21 06:02 AM
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Holyoke Offline
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Al Bruno got killed because he spoke with an FBI agent at a restaurant in Springfield, MA. The FBI agent mentioned something about Emilio Fusco getting made and Bruno told the agent that Fusco shouldn’t have gotten made. Bruno was in jail at the time he was made. That conversation got back to Fusco, who was on trial for something at the time, and it was documented. Fusco got a copy of the paperwork and gave it to Felix. Felix brought it down to NYC to Artie. Pretty sure that’s what got the ball rolling but I also think Bruno was on the outs with NYC at that point.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: Holyoke] #1021114
10/03/21 07:04 AM
10/03/21 07:04 AM
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DillyDolly Offline
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So if that's the case then basically Al Bruno was very likely a Scarpa-type informant for many years, maybe not a maniac like Scarpa but still.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: DillyDolly] #1021124
10/03/21 12:13 PM
10/03/21 12:13 PM
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furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
So if that's the case then basically Al Bruno was very likely a Scarpa-type informant for many years, maybe not a maniac like Scarpa but still.


What proofs you have? Only because Bruno said to a Fbi that Fusco wont be made? Bruno for some reason get bad blood with NY and Trinchese used it to get the ok to kill him.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: furio_from_naples] #1021126
10/03/21 12:22 PM
10/03/21 12:22 PM
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DillyDolly Offline
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Bruno didn't tell the FBI (when you talk to one agent, it's the same as talking to the whole agency, so let's keep it real, he talked to the FBI) that Fusco WON'T be made, he said that he SHOULDN'T have been made, according to the accusation. I don't have proof of shit I'm just saying that if that's true then yes it makes him a rat of some sort. You don't hang out with agents and talk about Mafia inductions and expect your fellow wiseguys to be okay with it. What the hell was he smoking?

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: DillyDolly] #1021128
10/03/21 12:40 PM
10/03/21 12:40 PM
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furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
Bruno didn't tell the FBI (when you talk to one agent, it's the same as talking to the whole agency, so let's keep it real, he talked to the FBI) that Fusco WON'T be made, he said that he SHOULDN'T have been made, according to the accusation. I don't have proof of shit I'm just saying that if that's true then yes it makes him a rat of some sort. You don't hang out with agents and talk about Mafia inductions and expect your fellow wiseguys to be okay with it. What the hell was he smoking?


Isn't the first time that Fbi agents provoked mobsters,Bruno should say "I don't know what you're talking about" or something similar but again he was in bad blood with NY bosses due gambling money if was in better shape he would be still alive.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: DillyDolly] #1021134
10/03/21 03:08 PM
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Holyoke Offline
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He was drinking. He spoke to the agent for about 45 minutes in a crowded restaurant for all to see. Bruno was a character and had lots of connections in the Springfield area.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1021139
10/03/21 04:01 PM
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I don't know if the beef was over gambling, but Nigro had a beef in the mid 1990s with Al. Bruno was in a restaurant for almost an hour talking to one FBI agent, one of the Maloni's and Scibelli's were there, and Jimmy Collaro, who had a meeting with Joe Gatto in New York in a couple of days. The next day after there was talk about it in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Boston. Bruno knew alot and had done business with a lot of guys in New England, New York, and New Jersey, so there was a lot of fear Bruno was going to flip.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: Holyoke] #1021145
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I understand he was drinking, but come on, talking about Mafia induction ceremonies with the FBI? No excuses.

Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1021150
10/03/21 05:53 PM
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NYMafia Offline
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Al Bruno was a personal friend of mine. And I can tell you now, he was a very good guy. Ballsy, fair, and had a nice personality. He got whacked for NO good reason by cretins who couldn't carry his jockstrap.

All because of the green-eyed monster!

RIP Al

PS: and he was no rat either! Stand up as they come. That was a sorry excuse to paint him black by guys who were jealous of him. Period!

Last edited by NYMafia; 10/03/21 05:55 PM.
Re: When the “Ivy League” failed to deliver [Re: LuanKuci] #1021151
10/03/21 05:59 PM
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naples,italy
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Originally Posted by NYMafia
Al Bruno was a personal friend of mine. And I can tell you now, he was a very good guy. Ballsy, fair, and had a nice personality. He got whacked for NO good reason by cretins who couldn't carry his jockstrap.

All because of the green-eyed monster!

RIP Al


Eugene (Rooster) Onofrio said that the Springfield crew "act like girls" and that he doesnt want to made the long trip for nothing,and he's the sprinfield capo. lol

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