Joseph Valachi:he get 15 years for drug trafficking and kept his mouth shut but Vito Genovese thinked that he was a rat ordered to kill him,Valachi killed an innocent inamte because feared that was a Joe Palermo and risk the death penalty;

Tommaso Buscetta:fled from Sicily because he doesn't want problem and for he was ready to be killed by the Corleonesi but after them start killing his relatives including his sister husband that was an onest man;

Pete Chiodo:he watched how from a good boss Tony Ducks Corallo his mob family passed from a bloody duo that kill everyone they suspected to by a rat but when they order to kill his sister (breaking the rule that forbite to kill a relative that is out of life) he must flip also to protect his sister.

George Barone:a long time soldier and racketeer despite having served the family faithfully for years, he was put on the shelf only because he did not want to give up what was rightfully his and be disrespected by the boss's son.

Nicholas "Nicky Skins" Stefanelli,become an informant because his son was accused of drug traffick and risked an harsh sentence and tried to lighten his sentence but at the end kill the informer that framed his son and commit suicede 2 days after.

Frank Cullotta: Was going to do the time until childhood friend Tony Spilotro put all the weight on him.. naturally Joe Lombardo gave Tony the green light to kill him, all this was caught on wiretap

Nicky the crow, if he is to be believed.

Al Darco and John Pennisi. All of the others flipped,no matter what they say, because they were facing heavy prison time....

I believe the rat infestation occurred when the guys on the street became wise to what their superiors were doing.
Setting rules to follow, which seemed to work for a short while until, it was blatantly obvious the guys on top had no rules for themselves.

Look at Pete Casella, and old school guy who KNOWS the rules gets a retirement pass for whacking a boss?
Is there a worse violation in Cosa Nostra?
The commission is supposed to eliminate anyone who dared to try such a move.

I often wonder what era stuck to protocol the most? My guess is probably after Anastasia was eliminated and books closed but, what do I know?

For Cullotta the risk to be killed is a work risk in the mob while Caramandi was marked only because used the name of Scarfo during the extortion. I read that nick the crow meet in prison Martorano that convinced caramandi to flip. True or not,Caramandi had a good reason,Cullotta not.

According to the gangster code, or G-Code, all of those guys took an oath that says live by the gun and the knife and die by the gun and the knife. They should've resolved their beef without getting law enforcement or the government involved. Gangsters pledge to live by a completely different set of rules than civilians, that means no courts of law, no lawsuits, no filing charges, no dialing 911, no ratting or cooperating, no running to mommy and daddy. Like someone here said, they spent a lifetime with mob figures before finally being sworn in, they knew exactly what they were getting into. All of this "I flipped because I realized they were no good" is a bunch of horse shit. Like Salvatore Profaci said, "Goodfellows don't sue goodfellows, goodfellows kill goodfellows." And one last thing, you're not changing my mind on this. They took the oath, they chose to be gangsters, not me.

Louie, sorry but your rat hero John Pennisi wasn't facing death in 21st Century America. The Mafia no longer kills people that's a story he made up to justify his snitching, not that it would've been an excuse anyway. He ran with those people for many, many years before being made and knew exactly what kind of people they were.

I don't think Valachi was in danger, but instead became paranoid. If Genovese was going to kill him it there would have been no warning, and that kiss of death story was made up by an FBI agent in all likelihood.

Same for D'Arco, if they wanted him dead he was not leaving that room.


Barone ratting because he was shelved in his 80's--I mean, he had to have made a ton of money, to rat over that? He made a few crazy claims on the stands, like saying famous musical was based on his life.

Exactly, guys like Barone made a ton of money, didn't save a penny, and now wants everyone to pay for it 🙄

The Cosa Nostra have rules that wasnt respected like those who said to dont kill relatives of the mobster while the boss break the rules,you can flip because he was the first to dont follow the rules.
Casso and Amuso ordering the Chiodo sister nurder break a law.
Yes,live by the gun and the knife and die by the gun and the knife but the oath is vale if all follow the rules,in the movie on Buscetta,the protagonist said that he take the oath when there was the old cosa nostra and that the Corleonesi dont follow the rule so he isnt a traitor because they broke the oath,not him.

No rat has ever had a good reason to rat. Even if you're marked for death, that is not a good reason. You go in and you fucking swallow that bullet like a man. It is an honor to die for your friends.

Bingo! I agree Ralphie 👍

Chiodo easily. By all accounts he was loyal but they tried to kill him anyway then almost killed his sister

It will be your fake friends that will be pulling the trigger. Just ask Michael Meldish.

I don't believe that for one second. Guys like Nicky Scarfo, say what you want about them, lived and died LCN. Caramandi's only loyalty was to himself. He was a freelance criminal for years before he got involved with the mafia. Being in the mafia just gave him the convenience of having more powerful guys to dime on in order to avoid doing time in prison. He used everyone around him. The guy was a master con artist and confidence trickster first, gangster second.

Phil Leonetti is another who transparently didn't have the balls to serve a long prison term and merely threw his uncle under the bus and blamed him instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. He was just as ruthless and evil as Scarfo. You can even see his facade slip during that interview he did in disguise back in the late 90s when the interviewer was getting under his skin asking questions he didn't like.

True, Leonetti waited till after his conviction came in to give everyone up. If he won his case he likely would have gone right back to what he had been doing.

I wasn't aware that F. Lee Bailey backed up Gravano's story that Gotti wanted him to take the fall...

[img]https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...b2888a88b20f0bbbbdf2bb0f&oe=60D9EEB1[/img]

I don't believe that bullshit story that Gotti wanted Gravano to take the fall. He's just trying to make himself feel better about snitching. Gotti wouldn't even plead guilty or try to get a sweet plea deal, and he was defiant all the way to his dying day. He wouldn't even let his guys take plea deals, telling them to fight their cases, but yet he wanted Gravano to take the fall? Doesn't even make sense.

Aladena Fratianno, he was an informant before 1977, but he was blowing smoke at the agents, honestly when you read those old files, he did not tell the agents what they already knew, chasing ghost. He would have been killed if he did not flip, but the agents would have not known about the threat of the mole inside their Cleveland field office. He was doing good once he transferred to Chicago to be one of their representative on the west coast. Once transferred back to Los Angeles he was used by the higher ups to set Frank Bompensiero who was an informant up for a hit, which he dragged it on till it was given to someone else in the San Diego crew. He had came back to Los Angeles on the understanding that he would be acting boss of the family until Brooklier was released and then transferred back to Chicago. That never happened and Fratianno was knocked down to soldier. Brooklier was sending messages to the other bosses that Fratianno had been misrepresenting himself and was setting up Fratianno to be either be hit by his own family, or getting the ok from the commission, as well as from Chicago and Cleveland. The feds found out he was not being straight with, and he was force to give up information and be in contact with an agent. Fratianno was in a jam, he would do the time, but how Brooklier had met and sent messages to the other bosses about Fratianno really hurted Fratiannos pride and felt betrayed. It is also worth noting that he was friends with at least three other informants, Frank Bompensiero, Salvatore Piscopo, and another unidentified informant.

I disagree on Joe Valachi, he was already an informant with FBN and was giving good Intel to them. Too much to go into, but him flipping alone brought in half a dozen more informants in key places to help the FBI.

Did ya open the link ?? It was F. Lee Bailey who said Gotti told him that they'd take the fall, not Gravano

F. Lee Bailey also still claims OJ is innocent, so I'll leave it up to those here to figure if he's reliable.

They had just murdered Michael Meldish and when people like Mike Desantis,George Conte and George Zappola are threatening to kill you I would take it serious...

Michael Meldish was a loose cannon, they basically were protecting themselves. They WERE NOT going to kill Pennisi, quit trying to justify and glorify snitching.

No such thing as "A Good Reason To Flip". As Anthony "Fat Andy" Ruggiano was so fond of saying "Rats Arent Made My Friend, Theyre Born That Way". There is no excuse for it, Its like a soldier signing up for the army, Than complaining and wanting out because he was shot by his enemies, Thats what you took an oath to get into, To put your life in another man's hands, Thats what you wanted, So shut the fuck up and take what comes you whinng fuckin pussies. When a guy joins the army, Hes well aware he could die from Friendly Fire, But he accepts that as apart of the life he chose, These fuckin weak minded half a fag pussy gangsters, Can shoot and stab and beat other people, But when its there turn to take life on the chin or face the gun, oh now you dont want to be a fuckin gangster nomore huh sweetie

TommyIrish,

Now there's something I wholeheartedly agree with. 👍

If you choose a life of crime, live it till end , i agree rats are worst of the worst ,especially that 99% of them would continue living life of crime if they don't get arrested. Same with policeman , if you choose to be policeman, don't be a dirty cop , its same thing.

But i also justify wave of rats during 80's and early 90's when Riina broke every single rule and started killing innocent children and relatives. A lot of people flipped because of that.

Pietro Aglieri said he prefers 41-bis over becoming a rat , when they asked him why , he gave pretty good answer:

“Look, Inspector, when you come into our schools to speak of legality, justice, respect for the law, of civil co-existence, our youth will listen to you and follow you, but when these youngsters come of age and look for work, a house, economic and health assistance, where do they find them? With you or with us? Inspector, they find them with us. And, only with us. You’re Sicilian, and you know very well it’s like this. Why should I cooperate, eh? Just so you can arrest another dozen fathers of families or to let you find a few rusty pistols. What would change if I told you what you want to know from me?”

Aglieri is a real man, comfortable in his own company.

There's never a good reason. The law is in black and white and penalties clearly stated. Commit armed robbery and it's you vs. your fellow citizens. The mafia is just an excuse not to do the time.