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Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! #1006617
03/04/21 07:49 PM
03/04/21 07:49 PM
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NYMafia Offline OP
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Go get your calculators... cause you're gonna need em.

Rats...stool pigeons...rodents...backstabbers...Benedict Arnolds...traitors...cooperators....etc., etc. The list of adjectives used to describe these informants is almost never ending!

And the list of mob informants is even longer!

https://thenewyorkmafia.com/2021/03/04/mafiosi-turned-informant-the-stool-pigeon-count/

Last edited by NYMafia; 03/04/21 08:16 PM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006623
03/04/21 08:26 PM
03/04/21 08:26 PM
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WhackWhack Offline
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Nice list. but under Gambinos you have Richard DiNome...you mean Freddie. Freddie became an informant once they killed Roy and then Richie his brother.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: WhackWhack] #1006627
03/04/21 09:05 PM
03/04/21 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WhackWhack
Nice list. but under Gambinos you have Richard DiNome...you mean Freddie. Freddie became an informant once they killed Roy and then Richie his brother.


correct. good catch

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006630
03/04/21 09:47 PM
03/04/21 09:47 PM
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If anybody has additional associates to add in that you think are significant enough, by all mean list them and I'll include them on my list ok?

And for that matter, if I've missed any NY/NJ "made" informants on my list, please let me know (I think I listed all the made guys, but you never know).

I'll add em, just make me aware of their names.

Last edited by NYMafia; 03/04/21 09:48 PM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006635
03/05/21 12:19 AM
03/05/21 12:19 AM
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jace Offline
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Good list, I do think a couple of names don't belong. Carmine Lombardozzi was never considered an informer till people starting speculating about it online a few years ago, it has never been proven. Yet a lot of people want to push that idea. Matt Traynor and Dom Lofaro were not really associates, Lofaro knew a few wise guys and Traynor was just man who cut a deal to get out of bank robbery charges by testifying against Gotti, who he hardly knew.(If he even knew him at all) The rest of the list is great.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006637
03/05/21 01:32 AM
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I think it's a well-known fact by now that organized crime is full of rats. On another note, I heard that in Italy the Mafia has told informants or turncoats to put out wrong information to mislead law enforcement. And as part of Bernardo Provenzano's plan to rejuvenate the Mafia he even ordered that rats and their families not be touched, and even welcomed them back into the fold.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006638
03/05/21 02:02 AM
03/05/21 02:02 AM
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Malavita Offline
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Interesting list.

You could add Steven Sergio, associate of the Gambinos who testified against Greg dePalma in the Scores strip club case.

I also noticed you don't consider Larry Mazza to be a soldier. Is that because he was made by the Persico faction and not the Colombo family as a whole ?
You could also add his pal Jimmy DelMasto.

Last edited by Malavita; 03/05/21 02:04 AM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006646
03/05/21 06:43 AM
03/05/21 06:43 AM
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naples,italy
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Ralph DeLeo was an informant before would made in the Colombos.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006647
03/05/21 09:07 AM
03/05/21 09:07 AM
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chin_gigante Offline
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Was James Tartaglione ever the Bonanno consigliere? My understanding is he was only ever a captain sitting on the committee to help run the family for Massino.

For Philadelphia members who flipped:

Nicholas Caramandi (soldier direct with Scarfo)
Thomas DelGiorno (former captain)
Eugene Milano (soldier)
Lawrence Merlino (former captain)
Philip Leonetti (underboss)
George Fresolone (captain)
Salvatore Grande (soldier)
Biagio Adornetto (soldier)
John Veasey (captain)
Sergio Battaglia (soldier)
Ronald Previte (captain)
Ralph Natale (boss)
Robert Luisi (captain)
Gaetano Scafidi (soldier)
Peter Caprio (captain)
Anthony Persiano (soldier)

Other Philly members who were informants:

Harry Riccobene (soldier)
Rocco Scafidi (soldier)
Pasquale Spirito (soldier)

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006648
03/05/21 09:40 AM
03/05/21 09:40 AM
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Chin, I do not believe that Fresolone was ever a captain. He had just gotten straightened out. He was no capo. He turned rat and recorded his own ceremony. He was a newly minted soldier.

And Veasey? I do not believe he was even an inducted soldier. He was a half a nut job who was used, and then they tried killing him. He was not a goodfella IMO.

And Ron Previte, that fat fuck. He was NO soldier. Regardless of what he says. He brought money. They "washed his face" for him because of that. But he was just an associate. I know he says he was "verbally" made, and then elevated. But he's full of shit. Like 95% of everything else that comes out of his mouth. It's a lie to inflate his importance.

As far as Big Lou Tartaglione, I thought I had seen that he was elevated to serve as "acting" consigliere for a short time. But I am not 100% on that. But thats where I'm leaning on him

Last edited by NYMafia; 03/05/21 09:41 AM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006649
03/05/21 09:53 AM
03/05/21 09:53 AM
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chin_gigante Offline
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Fresolone was made a captain the day after he was made.

Veasey got straightened out with Vincent Filipelli in September 1993 and promoted to captain a few weeks later.

Regardless of what outsiders might think of the situation, Previte was carried as made within the organisation and recognised as a captain.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: chin_gigante] #1006650
03/05/21 10:07 AM
03/05/21 10:07 AM
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I don't believe Harry Riccobene was a rat, he died in prison. Blasphemy! Mario Riccobene was a rat though, but he got whacked.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: chin_gigante] #1006651
03/05/21 10:33 AM
03/05/21 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by chin_gigante
Fresolone was made a captain the day after he was made.

Veasey got straightened out with Vincent Filipelli in September 1993 and promoted to captain a few weeks later.

Regardless of what outsiders might think of the situation, Previte was carried as made within the organisation and recognised as a captain.


You gotta show me Veasey was made. I question that statement

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006652
03/05/21 11:38 AM
03/05/21 11:38 AM
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naples,italy
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Philadelphia Mafia

(19 made men)

Ralph Natale BOSS
Philip Leonetti UNDERBOSS

Capos:

Peter Caprio
Nicholas Caramandi
Thomas DelGiorno
George Fresolone
Robert Luisi
Lawrence Merlino
Ronald Previte???

Soldiers

Eugene Milano
Salvatore Grande
Biagio Adornetto
Sergio Battaglia
Ronald Previte
Gaetano Scafidi
Anthony Persiano
Harry Riccobene
Rocco Scafidi
Pasquale Spirito

Associates:

John Vaesey


19 rats,not bad for a small family.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006655
03/05/21 01:26 PM
03/05/21 01:26 PM
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If anyone cares for some Canadian perspective...

As a dude from up North I'll just point out that to the best of my knowledge, the Rizzutos have never had an informant and no one has ever flipped to the government. Not that has ever been documented or even suspected.

There was Raffaele Delle Donne in Toronto who flipped on Peter Scarcella who was a Rizzuto associate in Toronto, but Delle Donne was just a low level associate anyway. He did get Scarcella pinched though.

Of all rats out there though, Delle Donne may have been one of the most respectable in my own opinion. He only flipped after they accidentally killed a young mother and he felt he had to do it. All the more strangely, he was offered a huge sum of money by the government for flipping, and he turned it down. Peculiar case.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006657
03/05/21 03:53 PM
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Its ironic the Bonannos were the last family not to have a member ever testify and now they are the rat family.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: WhackWhack] #1006658
03/05/21 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WhackWhack
Its ironic the Bonannos were the last family not to have a member ever testify and now they are the rat family.


Yep, from the top right on down!

Once you see bosses and hierarchy members flipping, you damn well know "The Life" is over. Period!

Last edited by NYMafia; 03/05/21 04:19 PM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006659
03/05/21 04:45 PM
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There have ALWAYS been rats, even in the horse and carriage days, this isn't some new phenomenon. The only thing that's new are celebrity rats. People have forever been saying that life is over, do some digging, I'm sure people said these things in the 1920s and 30s.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006661
03/05/21 05:52 PM
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Quote
The two murders qualified Veasey for induction into the mob in late September. A few weeks later, he said he was promoted to capo - 'unheard of in the mob.' It normally takes years before an associate becomes a 'made' member, and even longer to be promoted to capo.

- Kitty Caparella, "Shooting Star", Philadelphia Daily News. 13 June 1994.

Caparella had talked to Veasey over the phone while he was in prison after he survived the attempt on his life by Martines and Pagano.

Quote
He was formally initiated into the crime family by Stanfa at a making ceremony held in a room at the Penn Towers Hotel near the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. While other mob informants still talked with a degree of reverence about their initiation, Veasey was cavalier in his explanation of that most sacred of all Mafia rites. He described how his trigger finger was pricked with a pin and how Stanfa used a piece of toilet paper to dab the blood. Then the balled up toilet paper was placed in his cupped hands and set on fire. While it burned, he was told to repeat the Mafia oath of allegiance: May I burn like this paper if I betray this family. But Veasey had a comment to make first: 'I said, "You know, I already burned my hand one time for this family, I've got to burn it again?" Because, you know, I really didn't want to burn my hand again. It was already burnt.' Veasey said after he was initiated, Filipelli, the former Mister America, went through the same ceremony. Then Stanfa offered Veasey a glass of wine. But the ruthless hitman and newly minted wiseguy declined. He had to report to his parole officer later that afternoon. 'I had to give urine at five o'clock,' he said.

- George Anastasia, The Goodfella Tapes. 1998.

Quote
“Mr. Veasey, following the Frank Baldino murder, did your position vis-à-vis Mr. Stanfa change?” the prosecutor asked. “Yes it did,” Veasey said. “Would you explain?” “I became a member of the Mafia.” Veasey’s making ceremony took place at a hotel room at Penn Towers in West Philadelphia. John Stanfa, who fancied himself a lady-killer, was using the hotel for trysts with nurses and aides who were caring for his son. At the making ceremony, Stanfa took Veasey aside to explain, as Veasey put it, “the rules of the family.” “He told me that you can’t fight with other made guys in the family [and] no drugs,” Veasey testified. “If you want to sponsor someone, bring him in, he’s got to be all Italian. And definitely don’t mess with his [Stanfa’s] daughter. That was a big no-no.” “ … Will you describe for the jury the ceremony that followed that afternoon?” “ … Frank [Martines] tried to prick my finger and couldn’t get it,” Veasey said. So Veasey cut himself. The mobsters wrapped the bleeding finger in toilet paper, lit the paper on fire, and asked Veasey to cup the burning paper in his hand. “And, just before I lit it, I said, ‘You know, I already burned my hand one time for this family, I’ve got to burn it again?’” Veasey said. “You know, because I didn’t really want to burn my hand. It was already burnt. So I put it there. And he [Stanfa] said, ‘May you burn like this piece of paper if you ever betray this family.’” “And John [Stanfa] said, “This will make us strong, you know.’ And I hugged him,” Veasey said. “He [Stanfa] wanted me to drink some wine. I couldn’t because I had to go” see a parole officer. “If you drank the wine …” the prosecutor said — “I would have gone back to jail,” Veasey said. “I had to go give a urine [sample] at 5 o-clock.”

- Ralph Cipriano and John Veasey, The Hit Man. 2012.

Later on in the book, rank comes up when describing how in the hospital Veasey wrote down what had happened to him on a pad for investigators after he had been shot in the head:

Quote
Veasey told the cops to search the local hospitals because he had stabbed Frank Martines “real good.” Veasey knew the clock was ticking on Martines and Al Pajamas. Stanfa would be furious that they botched the hit. “They will probably be dead before I get out,” Veasey wrote. “This should have never happen[ed] to me, I am capo,” he said referring to his rank as a captain in the Stanfa gang.


The book also contains this excerpt from his testimony where he talks about his heritage:

"I never met my father. … Maybe you could help me out. I’ve been trying to find out. I don’t know what I am. My mother was Sicilian. I don’t know what my father was. I asked the FBI to try to find a picture of him. I’ve never seen him." “OK,” the defense lawyer said. “You consider yourself 100 percent Italian?” “Sure,” Veasey said. “I was raised Italian; raised by my mother’s side. They’re Sicilians. I don’t know what my father was. I heard he was Indian. I heard he was Irish. I heard he was Italian. I don’t have a clue.”

...

There are a couple of other things that are very important to take into account:

First, Veasey was a competent hit man and was a shooter in the murders of Michael Ciancaglini and Frank Baldino, which were the only two successful hits carried out by the Stanfa faction during the war. The Baldino murder especially was important as it came after Joseph Stanfa was shot, so his father just wanted anyone hit.

Secondly, Stanfa was desperate to have bodies around him. Merlino and Ciancaglini had a lot of younger guys around them who were hitters. Stanfa made a lot of people quickly and promoted them even quicker. Joey Chang was made in November 1991 and was promoted to underboss at some point in 1992. Luigi Tripodi was inducted under Stanfa (probably the same ceremony as Joey Chang) and was promoted to captain. Tripodi was in his 50s and hadn't been involved in illegality prior to hooking up with Stanfa. Frank Martines was made in May 1993 and promoted to acting underboss either immediately or soon after (this was after Joey Chang had been shot). Vincent Pagano came back up to Philadelphia from Florida in September 1993 and by December was inducted, was serving as a captain and was caught on tape talking about how if Stanfa was arrested, he (Pagano) would be the number 2 man and would help Martines run the family. Tommy Scafidi was made by Stanfa a matter of weeks after he defected from the Merlino faction, taking a list of shakedown victims with him.

Third, Sergio Battaglia has claimed that Stanfa was always looking to kill Veasey and Philip Colletti (who wasn't made) because he was unhappy with how the Ciancaglini murder had been carried out. Until that point Veasey would be useful to Stanfa as a killer and as somebody who could collect shakedown money. Stanfa did the same thing with Merlino and Mikey Chang when he straightened them out in 1992 to keep them close so they would (theoretically) be easier to kill.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: furio_from_naples] #1006662
03/05/21 06:00 PM
03/05/21 06:00 PM
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chin_gigante Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Philadelphia Mafia

(19 made men)

Ralph Natale BOSS
Philip Leonetti UNDERBOSS

Capos:

Peter Caprio
Nicholas Caramandi
Thomas DelGiorno
George Fresolone
Robert Luisi
Lawrence Merlino
Ronald Previte???

Soldiers

Eugene Milano
Salvatore Grande
Biagio Adornetto
Sergio Battaglia
Ronald Previte
Gaetano Scafidi
Anthony Persiano
Harry Riccobene
Rocco Scafidi
Pasquale Spirito

Associates:

John Vaesey


19 rats,not bad for a small family.


As I've described in my previous post, Veasey was definitely made and it's pretty far from not bad. Philadelphia has had more made guys become cooperating witnesses than any other family in the US. They've had a significant amount of associates who have flipped too. I've never gone through and compiled all the associates who have flipped because there's so many but here's the first few that into my head for associates:

Mario Riccobene
Rosario Bellocchi
Philip Colletti
Philip Casale
Roger Vella
Steven Carnivale
Louis Monacello
Michael Orlando
Harry Brown

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: DillyDolly] #1006663
03/05/21 06:01 PM
03/05/21 06:01 PM
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chin_gigante Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
I don't believe Harry Riccobene was a rat, he died in prison. Blasphemy! Mario Riccobene was a rat though, but he got whacked.


He provided info to the feds in the 1960s:

http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/philadelphiainf.html

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006667
03/05/21 06:13 PM
03/05/21 06:13 PM
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chin_gigante Offline
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Regarding my comment about Fresolone being a captain, I'll provide more context here:

The same day of the ceremony he got a phone call from John Praino to tell him that Martirano had taken a turn for the worst and was in the hospital. At the hospital, Martirano made Fresolone a captain over the other guys he had been straightened out with that day.

Quote
Starting today, you are a capo. The other four new guys are now yours. But you don't have to take this position if you don't want to. You can tell Cousin Anthony no. [...] You are now a captain, and you can assume the position within the family.

- George Fresolone and Robert J Wagman, Blood Oath. 1994.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006670
03/05/21 07:22 PM
03/05/21 07:22 PM
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Excellent info Chin. Thank you for that.

I agree with what you have said about them having more rats in Philly than any other borgata in the country. And its partially because this Stanfa was inducting anybody, and everybody, he could get his hands on, "wholesale' to help him win the conflict.

This Previte was told that even though you haven't gone through an "official" ceremony, consider yourself "made" as well. (at least that what Previte claims, if he can even be believed, cause he's a real bullshitter). But in light of what you've just laid out, it seems that in Philly anything goes!

Each of these fellas were a very sad commentary in and of themselve, to 'represent" made men. But in that era in Philly, it became the norm to put shit into their lineups. They were really scraping the bottom of the barrel with these guys. Unbelievable.

What is really surprising to me is that a native born Zip Sicilian like John Stanfa, would even think in this manner. You'd think, he of all people, being an immigrant from the otter side, would have been most strict in the rules and dictates of Cosa Nostra. And repeated the history and process involved.

I would have thought that he would have reached to Sicily for some imports to help him.

It just goes to show that he was another "incapable" asshole, who did not deserve the top post that he got becoming boss.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006672
03/05/21 07:32 PM
03/05/21 07:32 PM
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Chin Gigante,Vasey shouldn't be made because he is irish from his father side. Doesn’t count if his mother was sicilian and raised him like a sicilian.Its like Joe Bravo in montreal that was killed because said to the sicilians that Vito Rizzuto made him.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: furio_from_naples] #1006673
03/05/21 07:50 PM
03/05/21 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Chin Gigante,Vasey shouldn't be made because he is irish from his father side. Doesn’t count if his mother was sicilian and raised him like a sicilian.Its like Joe Bravo in montreal that was killed because said to the sicilians that Vito Rizzuto made him.


Another excellent point Furio. It goes to show just how really fucked up they were in Philly. And also what a halfassed boss this Stanfa was. Sicilian my ass! This Stanfa was Sicilian by 'postcard.' to allow a half-breed, especially one who's "father" was NOT Italian at all, says it all!

Stanfa was not boss material. It also goes to show that the almighty dollar rules everything! For the opportunity to make a few measly $$, he was selling Cosa Nostra down the drain.

Years back, he would have been found in a ditch with his head cut off!

Last edited by NYMafia; 03/05/21 07:52 PM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006677
03/05/21 08:44 PM
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The Philly mob stopped acting like an LCN family after Scarfo went away. Scarfo was a lousy boss, but at least the borgata was still authentic under him.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: DillyDolly] #1006678
03/05/21 09:09 PM
03/05/21 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 238
WhackWhack Offline
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WhackWhack  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by DillyDolly
There have ALWAYS been rats, even in the horse and carriage days, this isn't some new phenomenon. The only thing that's new are celebrity rats. People have forever been saying that life is over, do some digging, I'm sure people said these things in the 1920s and 30s.


That is not true at all. There is a huge difference between telling things to cops (which Lucky Luciano did about other dealers to get out of a charge) to testifying in open court. For over 30 years not a single made man ever testified until Valachi...and then certain families like the Bonannos didn't have anyone testify until Frank Coppa in 2002. That is over 70 YEARS the Bonanno family was operating until they had a made man testify in court. There are way more rats today then before.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: WhackWhack] #1006679
03/05/21 10:03 PM
03/05/21 10:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
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DillyDolly Offline
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DillyDolly  Offline
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There have ALWAYS been rats, a rat is a rat, rather inside or outside of court. Sure openly there are more rats, and they're celebrities these days. But there have always at the very least been confidential informants. They just stayed in the closet for the most part back then.

Last edited by DillyDolly; 03/05/21 10:04 PM.
Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006683
03/05/21 11:24 PM
03/05/21 11:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 11,306
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NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 11,306
Stool pigeons are inherent to the game. But I do agree that decades back, 99.9% of these hard-ons were "dry snitches" who worked with LE surreptitiously. Nobody was getting on the stand and pointing fingers at guys. They didn't have the balls for that.

Valachi was the first to publicly break his vows and testify in front of a senate committee, and in front of all the world to see.

The floodgates slowly opened, to the point that nowadays these shameless rats actually flaunt their "informant" status like its a badge of honor or something.

The world is getting sicker and sicker by the day!

And you know what? They're getting away with it too! And the asshole public actually "subscribes" to their podcasts, and actually pays their hard earned money to some of these rats to listen to their lies and fantasy. So they give the "suckers" what they know these mob" fans" want, all the while they're making another hustle for themselves.

It's become just another racket for the rats. And the public only have themselves to blame for it! Lol.... what a bad joke this is. But the joke is on John Q. public.

Re: Mafiosi Informants - The Stool Pigeon Count! [Re: NYMafia] #1006686
03/06/21 12:19 AM
03/06/21 12:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
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DillyDolly Offline
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DillyDolly  Offline
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What I have a problem with is when someone keeps their traps shut, it's not broadcasted everywhere. They go to their cells and it's the last you see of them. But when someone flips it makes front pages everywhere. It's like the System is designed that way, to somehow make snitching trendy. You support the State, the red carpet is rolled out for you.

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