Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by NYMafia
I think by the very nature of these type forums, those who join and interact here are interested in the subject matter at hand for one reason or another.

There are many reasons I think for this: they can sometimes be fans of the underworld, or haters for that matter. Some may know a few of the people mentioned on here so it peaks their interest. I think they could also sometimes be connected to law enforcement, or they could be street people themselves (or relatives of law enforcement or wiseguys).

Some make a study of the subject. Students of criminology, college students researching, or neighborhood people searching for people they used to know. I do think some may be "partial" to wiseguys. I do think some may be blatantly opposed to wiseguys.

Most commonly, I think most of those visiting this forum (and forums like it) are just really intrigued by the subject matter. The way those who watch "true crime" dramas, read books, and crime movies are. This stuff sells.

But for one reason or another they could be called "crime buffs." The same way many people follow sports. A guy follows baseball stats, or football stats, etc. I see a similarity.


This part doesn't even make sense. I would think any decent person is opposed to acts of a criminal nature. I've known people who are thieves and people who drink drive and people who commit acts of violence on other people. I tolerate them, may even be friendly with some of them, but I don't condone or endorse what they do.

Every mob associate and up performs acts that monetarily benefit an organization that has historically preyed on the weak of society and perpetrated violent, sexual and avaricious acts on people as diverse as drug addicts, gambling addicts, 9 to 5 workers, and even women and children.

I'm not comparing like-for-like but you wouldn't give someone who enabled people like Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein any leeway so why would you give a "harmless" bookie any leeway?

They all contribute to a vicious cycle that perpetuates the most hideous crimes on innocent people, be it mob leaders like Furnari or Franzese raping women, soldiers and capos like De Meo and Di Bernardo profiting from production of child pornography, mob leaders like A. Persico and Michael Mancuso murdering women, capos like Cacace, Gravano and Giovanelli murdering cops, a boss like Vincent Basciano putting a hit out on a prosecutor, and of course the most celebrated mobster of all time John Gotti murdering an innocent civilian. I could go on in a similar vein listing just the powerful guys who have blood on their hands that isn't that of people who were "in the game". Salvatore Avellino's mandated murder of waste haulers Robert Kubecka and Donald Barstow is another cruel murder that sticks in my memory.

Then you have guys like Anthony Casso and Tommy Pitera who were one rung below serial killers.

In summation, yes I do think this forum has people who overlook how morally decrepit the mafia is as a whole and are a little too into the Cowboys and Indians aspect of stone gangsters v rats/feds et cetera.

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I understand your point. And for the most part its well taken..... but like the man said, "whatever floats your boat." That's what makes horse races Moe, everybody likes a different horse in the race. Everybody sees something different than the next guy. Free speech and thought as they say.

As far as my perception of it. I try not to shove my viewpoint down other peoples throats. Regardless of whether I agree with their standpoint, understand the views or not. So long as they are not attacking me. Let them pick the horse they like, and take any position in the conversation that suites them. I'm not the "morals" police. Nor is it my job to convince the world to think as I do.

We live in America. And ALL of us have lived very different lives, and have had VERY different experiences. Perhaps had I lived in their shoes, I'd think as they do. Or vice versa!

It is what it is. The important thing is that we respect each others viewpoints without being nasty or sarcastic to one another. Because the world is indeed a very complex place.