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Scorsese anti-black?
#188388
10/02/04 11:03 PM
10/02/04 11:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19 Sydney, Australia
Cybershmuck
OP
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19
Sydney, Australia
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After watching several of his maginificant movies I have noticed that quite often or always black characters are not featured that much or a virtualy non existant.
I think this is rather odd since most of his films deal wtih the gangster/drugs theme and that surely characters would inevitably come across black gangstes and dope dealers, especially the setting being in NYC. The only black character I saw from Scorses movies was Stax Edwards (Samuel L Jackson) who I think had a rather minor role in the film. Also in Taxi Driver Deniro was visciously beating up a black man in a supermarket whilst the shop keeper was just casually watching the scene unfold and not giving a damn.
Did he really have something against them or he just thought that they weren't important enough to pay attention to?
"Running a casino is like robbing a bank with no cops around. For guys like me, Las Vegas washes away your sins. It's like a morality car wash" Ace Rosthein
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Re: Scorsese anti-black?
#188393
10/03/04 03:43 AM
10/03/04 03:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
QTN
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
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Scorsese is a good example that many great filmmakers follow..."Do what you know!"
Since "Marty" is a Queens-native, Italian-American descent, combined with his rabid obsession with movies, its not surprising he simply follows what he knows with stuff like MEAN STREETS and WHO'S THAT KNOCKING AT MY DOOR? and later on in RAGING BULL and of course GOODFELLAS and CASINO.
Its like John Singleton, an African-American filmmaker that made BOYZ IN THE HOOD and BABY BOY, two black "gangster" films, and then seeing some of Spike Lee's films(like in MALCOLM X and especially DO THE RIGHT THING) some of the protagonist's opposing foes were white. Because of this, are they anti-white? Of course not.
Besides, imagined if some California sunshine 20sh guy had directed GOODFELLAS. The end result is that the movie would not have been as "realistically gritty" and honest, in a sub-consious leve at least.
Same with Oliver Stone doing all those Vietnam War-set films....he was a volunteer in the Vietnam War, so hes doing what he knows.
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Re: Scorsese anti-black?
#188395
10/03/04 11:08 AM
10/03/04 11:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,724 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,724
AZ
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You've hit upon a reality of American life: the movie industry is white-dominated, most movie-goers are white, and therefore most films that expect to make big money stick with white casts and white themes. Another (unfortunate) part of movie culture is that scriptwriters and directors tend to go with stereotypes, rather than show nuances of character. So, if they need a racketeer, they go with an Italian character, a drug dealer is most often black or hispanic, a drunk is Irish, a landlord or storeowner is a Jew, etc. When I was a little kid, my mother (who was a grade-A movie fan) always told me that the only time you saw blacks in films was in prison movies. She was right.
As for Scorsese: as others have pointed out, he goes with what he knows. "Mean Streets" had a black character (a dancer that Charlie wanted to employ in a restaurant he hoped to take over). Scorsese collaborates with famous black director Spike Lee. You often see Scorsese's "stock company" in Lee's movies. Watch "Jungle Fever" and you'll see much of the cast of "Goodfellas," and not just Samuel L. Jackson either.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Scorsese anti-black?
#188397
10/03/04 01:33 PM
10/03/04 01:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
QTN
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
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Will Smith....jeez. The same guy that when Spike Lee called him and tried to be hired as the director of ALI, Smith didn't want Lee to make his "type of film" and instead wanted a movie that would have "broader appeal"...of course ALI tanked in theaters anyway, even with a personal favorite filmmaker of mine, Michael Mann.
But yes, Spike Lee was a student under Scorsese when "Marty" was a film professor at NYU. Ironically, Oliver Stone was also a student.
Another example of a filmmaker that does what he knows is Quentin Tarantino. I mean most of his movies set, or partially set, in Los Angeles where he was raised and lived for most of his life.
But yes Turnbull, you are absolutely correct, and most Hollywood movies have these cliches either because they were too lazy(director/screenwriters/producers that is) to do proper research or actually know these people, or they are really not cultured enough to know any better.
Some filmmakers that at least attempted to go for a difference was George Romero, who had the black lead in his horror classics NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD and DAWN OF THE DEAD(Ken Foree For President!!!), and John Carpenter with Austin Stoker in ASSAULT ON PRECEINT 13.
Of course Tarantino is another man who tries, like look at his female black lead with Pam Grier in JACKIE BROWN, and of course letting Sam Jackson do his thing.
But again, the racial stereotypes...thats why many African-Americans were taken for the "blaxploitation" films of the 1970's, for they for once were the heroes and not the sidekick thats says "Damn!" all the time(like we see the norm in Hollywood movies now) nor were they the token characters. I mean Larry Cohen's BLACK CAESAR is basically the same story of SCARFACE but instead a black hood, with guts and intelligence and street smarts, takes command as a major mob boss over an Italian syndicate. Besides, look at the "Bad-Ass" heroes in movies like SHAFT, SUPERFLY, TRUCK TURNER, and so on.
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Re: Scorsese anti-black?
#188398
10/03/04 05:19 PM
10/03/04 05:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249 Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
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Originally posted by Cybershmuck: ...Also in Taxi Driver Deniro was visciously beating up a black man in a supermarket whilst the shop keeper was just casually watching the scene unfold and not giving a damn. If you watch that scene closely, the black man was robbing the store. No I dont think Scorsese is anti-black. When you have a movie about Italians or Jews you tend to think of them as white. If I went to see a movie about Colin Powell, it would lose credibility if Edward Norton was playing the lead. It really depends on your characters, and the movies Scorsese has done just havent had a black centered storyline
If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
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Re: Scorsese anti-black?
#188399
10/03/04 06:48 PM
10/03/04 06:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543 Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
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Welcome to the site, Cybershmuck. An actual thoughtful question to me, at first, which was why I entered. He's definitely not anti-black, but I too have noticed a trend in his films--the black thief in Taxi Driver, Stacks in Goodfellas, and the overall lacking of black actors altogether in his films. And I have to say I admire him for it. Too many films these days have succumbed to Hollywood and put black actors in roles which only stereotypes them (wrongly). Scorsese avoids this by not even including them in films where (let's face it) they normally wouldn't be needed, such as Goodfellas, Casino, etc. In Gangs of New York he totally missed out the anti-black riots of that time. There's something I noticed in the past, like I said, some social comment in there somewhere; it's not racist, though. In fact, I'm sure I read something about it in "Scorsese on Scorsese." By the way, you clearly need to see Taxi Driver again. The black guy is holding up the shop at gunpoint, Travis shoots him, and the shop keeper decides to beat the living (or dead?) daylights out of the corpse, while Travis drives off in his cab. Mick
...dot com bold typeface rhetoric. You go clickety click and get your head split. 'The hell you look like on a message board Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
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