GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (m2w), 278 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,959
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,286
Hollander 24,666
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,544
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,488
Posts1,061,794
Members10,349
Most Online1,100
Jun 10th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Frank Pentangeli #19926
12/07/04 05:52 AM
12/07/04 05:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Munster, Indiana USA
L
Lockformer Offline OP
Associate
Lockformer  Offline OP
L
Associate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Munster, Indiana USA
Exactly what kind of a deal did Michael want Frank Pentangeli to make with the Rosato brothers? There was a big shootout after that and I couldn't tell who was shooting who.

Re: Frank Pentangeli #19927
12/07/04 07:09 AM
12/07/04 07:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Michael wanted Frankie to act like he was willing to make peace with the Rosattos and work things out. Michael wanted this done so not to jeapordize his own deal that he was trying to make with Roth.

Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Frank Pentangeli #19928
12/07/04 12:45 PM
12/07/04 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
This was one of Michael's cleverest ploys:
He showed up at Frankie's place yelling about the Tahoe attempt, making Frankie think he blamed him. Then, when Michael said he knew Roth was the culprit and asked Frankie to help him, Frankie practically passed out with relief. "Michael, anything..." he said. That's when Michael pounced: "Settle these problems with the Rosato brothers."
When Frankie went along with it, he made a giant concession to Michael: putting his own interests in the "three territories in the Bronx" behind him, and putting his own life in jeopardy by meeting with the Rosatos. Michael had strictly selfish reasons: He wanted Roth to think that their mutual deal was still on. If Frankie succeeded in settling his problems with the Rosatos at that meeting, so much the better for Michael--he'd have one less problem in NY. If the Rosatos killed or tried to kill Frankie, it'd be further proof that Roth was behind the Tahoe attack. Michael couldn't lose: clever Michael! Poor Frankie!


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19929
12/07/04 01:39 PM
12/07/04 01:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
When Michael was suspecting even his close family members(except Tom), why the hell did he tell Frankie about all his plans(plus all the philosophy, his father's advice and all other miscellaneous wisdom grin )? What if pentangeli was involved indirectly?

Re: Frank Pentangeli #19930
12/07/04 06:26 PM
12/07/04 06:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone Offline
Underboss
Don Sonny Corleone  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
because frankie wasnt close enough to approach for betreyal. It had to be someone close to Michael, who he would trust, someone who would be able to (more or less) tell Roth where would be the easiest place to hit Michael, but also someone who wasnt too loyal to Mike that they wouldnt say "Roth approached me".Five Angels wasnt close enough that he could be telling Roth were mike hung out at certain times of the day.


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19931
12/07/04 07:40 PM
12/07/04 07:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by Don Sonny Corleone:
because frankie wasnt close enough to approach for betreyal.
Also, Roth overplayed his hand:
Roth probably was invited to Anthony's party but bowed out because of "ill health." But he knew that Frankie would be there, contentious about the Rosato brothers and anxious for a private audience with Michael. Therefore, Roth figured, Frankie would have an obvious beef with Michael, and would be the obvious fall-guy for the hit, successful or not.
What Roth didn't count on was that Michael--far smarter than he thought--saw that it was all too obvious, too pat, for Frankie to have made the attempt. Frankie wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he wasn't dumb enough to think he could whack Michael and get away with it. That's why Michael concluded almost immediately that Roth was the culprit.
I said "almost" because that scene with Frankie in his study was a kind of loyalty test: Frankie passed it when he agreed to meet with the Rosatos.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19932
12/17/04 05:01 AM
12/17/04 05:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Norway
Don Aprile Offline
Wiseguy
Don Aprile  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Norway
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Quote
Originally posted by Don Sonny Corleone:
[b] because frankie wasnt close enough to approach for betreyal.
Also, Roth overplayed his hand:
Roth probably was invited to Anthony's party but bowed out because of "ill health." But he knew that Frankie would be there, contentious about the Rosato brothers and anxious for a private audience with Michael. Therefore, Roth figured, Frankie would have an obvious beef with Michael, and would be the obvious fall-guy for the hit, successful or not.
What Roth didn't count on was that Michael--far smarter than he thought--saw that it was all too obvious, too pat, for Frankie to have made the attempt. Frankie wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he wasn't dumb enough to think he could whack Michael and get away with it. That's why Michael concluded almost immediately that Roth was the culprit.
I said "almost" because that scene with Frankie in his study was a kind of loyalty test: Frankie passed it when he agreed to meet with the Rosatos. [/b]
Good point Turnbull.

Don Aprile


"Behind every great fortune there is a crime.
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19933
12/17/04 07:50 AM
12/17/04 07:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
What kind of relationship did michael share with Pentangeli?
In the dinner scene, we see pentangeli throwing the glass on the table with disrespect. In michael's room again we see Pentangeli saying that he need not be told how to run the family. In both these scenes, pentangeli is not shown as a subordinate who cannot raise his voice against michael. But in Pentangeli's house michael shouts at him and pentangeli is immedietely meek and scared. What was his role in michael's business? was he a caporegime?

Re: Frank Pentangeli #19934
12/17/04 11:16 AM
12/17/04 11:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
waynethegame  Offline
Capo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
Quote
Originally posted by svsg:
What kind of relationship did michael share with Pentangeli?
In the dinner scene, we see pentangeli throwing the glass on the table with disrespect. In michael's room again we see Pentangeli saying that he need not be told how to run the family. In both these scenes, pentangeli is not shown as a subordinate who cannot raise his voice against michael. But in Pentangeli's house michael shouts at him and pentangeli is immedietely meek and scared. What was his role in michael's business? was he a caporegime?
My understanding is that he wasn't quite a capo, but not quite his own boss. He took over Clemenza's territories,, but at this point Clemenza was supposed to have formed his own family, seperate from the Corleones. Based on what Michael says in GFII, however, this isn't the case.

Pentangeli was still firmly entrenched in the Corleone's business affairs, and he was still an indirect part of the Corleone family; while the main part of the family was in Nevada, Clemenza/Pentangeli took care of the family's "assets" in New York. After all, when he says he can run "his" family the way he wants to, Michael reminds him that his family still bears the name Corleone, and that he'll run it like a Corleone (in other words, do what the Godfather tells him to do like a loyal soldier).

I liken the situation to a large corporation: You have the Chairman of the Board (i.e. Michael) who runs the main company, and then you would have subsidiary companies with their own President and staff who can pretty much do their own thing, but are still technically under the "parent" company. (i.e. Pentangeli)


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19935
12/17/04 11:26 AM
12/17/04 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Frankie was a caporegime, like Tessio and Clemenza before him. His job was to run the "olive oil business" in NYC. He was subordinate to Michael.
Frankie wasn't disrespectful to Michael, but since he was in NYC and Michael was in Tahoe, he wanted more independence. Probably he disagreed with his boss more vigorously than he would have if Michael was still in NYC, supervising him closely.
Two other points:
1. Frankie didn't throw the wine glass--he knocked it over because he was drunk.
2. The reason he was meek and cowering when Michael confronted him at his home was that he feared Michael would blame him for the Tahoe attempt. Michael did his best to foster that impression by shouting at Frankie. So, when Michael told Frankie that he knew it was Roth, Frankie practically passed out with relief. Then Michael pounced: "I want you to help me take my revenge." "Michael, anything..." Frankie replied, blissful with relief. "Settle these problems with the Rosatos," Michael said. Now Michael got Frankie to go along with something he was arguing about just days earlier in Tahoe. It was Michael at his most brilliant and manipulative. wink


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Frank Pentangeli #19936
12/17/04 11:40 AM
12/17/04 11:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12
GA
Don J. Corleone Offline
Wiseguy
Don J. Corleone  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12
GA
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Frankie didn't throw the wine glass--he knocked it over because he was drunk.
I agree he was drunk, but I also thought it was an utter show of dispespect. Look at how Michael and even Moma "C" look at him afterwards. They can't even believe he did that.


"Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again. Ever."

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™