GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
4 registered members (m2w, Toodoped, 2 invisible), 701 guests, and 80 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,848
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,286
Hollander 24,439
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,529
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,432
Posts1,060,867
Members10,349
Most Online911
May 23rd, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
WHY? #19035
11/05/04 03:35 PM
11/05/04 03:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 53
Maryland
Uncle Ken Offline OP
Button
Uncle Ken  Offline OP
Button
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 53
Maryland
Two things that always puzzled me;
one is why would Rocco try and kill Hyman Roth which he new (difficult, not impossible) would be a suicide mission when he could have had ANYONE of a number of his men do it?
Also, on the steps of the hospital, after they "scared away" hit men, why does Michael look at Enzo's lighter, after lighting Enzo's cigarette? It seems as if this look was to mean something; a reminder, or a clue, something!?


Napalm, boy -- nothing else in the world smells like that -- I love the smell of napalm in the morning -- it smells like ... victory... (Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore, 9th Air Cavalry / 1st Cavalry Div - Sept 1969, North Vietnamese Village on Nung River)
Re: WHY? #19036
11/05/04 03:39 PM
11/05/04 03:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,900
Beth E Offline
Crabby
Beth E  Offline
Crabby

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,900
I don't know about #1, except if Michael gave him the order to kill him then he had no choice.

Michael is actually looking at his hands, realizing how calm he is compared to Enzo's shaking hands.


How about a little less questions and a lot more shut the hell up - Brian Griffin

When there's a will...put me in it.
Re: WHY? #19037
11/05/04 03:41 PM
11/05/04 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
DonMichaelCorleone Offline
DonMichaelCorleone  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
Quote
Also, after lighting Enzo's cigarette, why does Michael look at Enzo's lighter on the steps of the hospital after they "scared away" hit men? It seems as if this look was to mean something; a reminder, or a clue, something!?
It is not the lighter he is looking at. It's his hand. The reason Enzo couldn't light the cigarrette is because his hands were shaking too much. But when Michael took it he saw his hands didn't shake. Enzo obviously didn't have the mindset to be a "mafia member" because he didn't have nerves of steel, Michael at that point realized he did. Maybe even realized he was alot more like his father.


"You gave your word, I never gave mine"
http://s2.gladiatus.us/game/c.php?uid=88380
Re: WHY? #19038
11/05/04 03:44 PM
11/05/04 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 53
Maryland
Uncle Ken Offline OP
Button
Uncle Ken  Offline OP
Button
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 53
Maryland
Quote
Originally posted by Beth E:
I don't know about #1, except if Michael gave him the order to kill him then he had no choice.

Michael is actually looking at his hands, realizing how calm he is compared to Enzo's shaking hands.
WOW! I never thought of that before! Good insight.


Napalm, boy -- nothing else in the world smells like that -- I love the smell of napalm in the morning -- it smells like ... victory... (Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore, 9th Air Cavalry / 1st Cavalry Div - Sept 1969, North Vietnamese Village on Nung River)
Re: WHY? #19039
11/05/04 03:59 PM
11/05/04 03:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 44,945
DE NIRO Offline
DE NIRO  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 44,945
I always wondered was rocco was the one to kill to kill roth.Maybe he put the plan together.


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: WHY? #19040
11/05/04 04:01 PM
11/05/04 04:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,529
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,529
AZ
A subtheme in GFII is how Neri attempts to push Hagen and Rocco aside to become #2 to Michael. Many examples, but the best one is in the penultimate boat house scene. We see Neri lead the discussion, slouched in a chair, talking about Roth's moves, giving a smug little grin when Michael confronts Tom with his knowledge of another job offer and Tom's mistress (Neri probably was the source of that knowledge). Rocco just stands silently, like the mere bodyguard he was in most of GFII. After Tom objects to Michael's plan to have Roth killed, Michael further humiliates him: "You know, Tom, you surprise me...if there's one certainty...it's that you can kill anyone." The he immediately says, Rocco?" Notice that he didn't say, "Al?" Michael put Rocco on the spot: after Tom's humiliation, what could Rocco say, except, "difficult, not impossible."
So, why did he take on this apparent suicide mission? Because Michael, in effect, left him no choice. And, perhaps, because he saw it as a last-ditch attempt to push ahead of Neri. IMO, it was too late: Michael had decided that Rocco was expendible, Neri wasn't.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: WHY? #19041
11/05/04 05:41 PM
11/05/04 05:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
I'm not gonna claim that this theory is the correct one, but you could look at it another way:

By asking Rocco if Roth could be killed, Michael may have been acording him more respect than Neri. By asking Rocco, the implication could be that Rocco was the more accomplished hitman, and Michael valued his opinion above Neri's.

At no time did Michael suggest that it had to be Rocco who actually carried out the hit. He was merely asking him if it could be accomplished. It was left up to Rocco to devise the method.

Had he implemented a different plan, other than one with himself as the shooter, and had it failed, Rocco could have always fallen back on his original "Difficult, not impossible" position.("Look, Mike, I tried. But Roth was just too well guarded. Even if I had gone on the hit myself, there was still no way ...")

I agree that Rocco saw his importance in the family diminishing with the rise of Neri, and I think he himself made the decision to be the assassin, figuring that (a) it had a better chance of success that way, and (b) by killing Roth himself, he could regain a measure of respect in Michael's eyes.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: WHY? #19042
11/05/04 08:01 PM
11/05/04 08:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
waynethegame  Offline
Capo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
I agree with that thought. Remember thatn when Michael killed Sollozzo and McCluskey, it *had* to be him because he was the only person who could reasonably pull it off. I think it was the same thing with the hit on Roth; Rocco was an accomplished soldier with an amazing track record. He chose to handle the hit himself because he knew he could get it done; if he trusted it to buttonman or someone else, there was a chance for failure.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: WHY? #19043
11/05/04 08:31 PM
11/05/04 08:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Michael had decided that Rocco was expendible, Neri wasn't.
Yes, I totally agree with you on that. Neri had definately become more valuable to Michael.
We know from GFII when Michael talks privately with Tom, he does not trust anyone and explains why to Tom. I always felt that at that final meeting between Mike, Tom, Rocco and Neri, Michael was testing Tom and Rocco's loyalty. He makes it fully clear to Tom that he ( Mike ) is aware of what is going on in Tom's life, the gumare, the job offer, and then after Tom replies to Mike, showing in his reply that he is still loyal, Mike confirms his trust again in Tom when he asks him in ITALIAN if he is staying on. Neri did NOT have to have his loyalty tested openly, as Neri was the one who had probably found out all this information about Tom and in doing so he showed Michael that he was still watching out for him and was loyal to him. Now Rocco, what had he done to show his loyalty to Mike at that point, nothing. So I always felt that by Mike asking the question about hitting Roth directly to Rocco, in a sense he was testing Rocco's loylty and indirectly telling Rocco that this was his chance to show his loyalty to Mike. Let's remember that Mike still suspected someone on the inside, of immedeatly killing the hitman that had tried to kill him (Mike).


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.





Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™