This summer I will be heading to Sicily for a vacation that will last 2-3 weeks. Now, I can communicate well enough in Italian but I know that there are differences between it and Sicillian. The only person in my family who spoke with a Sicilian dialect was my great grandfather and he's been dead for a long time.

So, could anyone tell me what any major differences are between the two said dialects. Any advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Where in Sicily are you going?? Please tell us more!! Sicily is incredibly beautiful. Whatever you do, make sure not to miss the Cathedral and Cloisters in Monreale, the temple and amphitheater in Segesta, the beaches of Terrasini and the beauty of Etna and Taormina. And that's only the beginning!

The Sicilian dialect is different enough from "Italian" that linguists have said that it should be considered a separate language of its own. However, you shouldn't have a language problem if you speak Italian. Most Sicilians do as well.

I know the every 'o' turns into a 'u' in sicilian.

We'll be staying in Monreale actually, so seeing the Cathedral will be one of the first things we do. I plan to see everything I can while I'm there. Thanks alot for the reccomendations and for the reassurance on the language barrier not being too much of a problem. I thought I was going to have to learn a whole new language! This is will be my first time visiting Sicily, so I hope to make the best of it.

Here is an interesting website: http://www.sicilianculture.com/dialect/index.htm

It may not have all the answers to your questions, but you may find it interesting.

Signor V.

Well, if you're staying in Monreale, then Segesta, Terrasini, Castellamare del Golfo and Palermo are all very close. I also recommend seeing Erice, an ancient town with narrow, cobblestone streets, castles and beautiful views. Enjoy your trip!! Come back and tell us all about it!!

Aren't there different dialects in Sicily as well, even though probably not as drastic. I know my parents noticed a difference the few times they were in Italy/Sicily, but didn't have a problem communicating.

One of my regrets is not learning Italian. I had it all around me, and didn't take the time to learn it. I can understand some, but very little. Somtimes I pick up on a few phrases that I grew up with and actually remember.

Last year when I was visiting my parents, my mother says to me in Italian to "shut the door" and I understood her. I'm thinking to myself, "hey, I know Italian." :p

Vitelli, I am familiar with the site you posted. I few years ago I was doing ancestry/Italian research and went there often. Here's another that might be helpful:


My Paisan

TIS

That's quite an excellent site, TIS - grazie from the bottom of my heart for posting it. (Of course, being the person that I am, I went right to the recipes section, then navigated much of the rest of the website!)

Signor V.

Vitelli, you'd make a great Italian.....go right for the food.

You know, I think not only dialects are different between Sicily & Italy, but I have the feeling that food may be as well. Well, at least some of it. Don't you think?

For instance, I notice zitti is big on the Sopranos right? The Sopranos aren't Sicilian. I don't really recall my grandmother or mother ever making zitti? Unless of course there's a Sicilian version and it's called something else????? There are quite a few other dishes I haven't had and some haven't heard of. It just surprises me because I come from a family who's heritage is Sicilian on both sides and their cooking pretty authentic.

TIS

Very interesting thread...I'll give my thoughts a bit later...

TIS, you are absolutely right, both about dialects and food. My mother's family is from Partinico, which is near Palermo. Her friend is from Messina. Their dialects are very different.

The visits that I made to Sicily, the food was very seasonal. It was mostly pasta, with fresh vegetables. There would also be some meat, more like cutlets, and lots of fresh fruit. The fish guy would come in the morning (the various vendors come every morning, selling fish, or bread, announcing their arrival in a loud, singsong voice, prompting Mr. Babe to say, Whoever is hiding Vito Andolini...) with his trailer packed with fresh fish packed in ice. The fish would be cooked in an outdoor wood-burning oven with lemons. They use lots of lemons, since they're so plentiful.

SB,

I don't remember if you said, do you speak Italian? Or does your family?


TIS


Btw, back to food, in my family (my dad's side), on December 13th, St. Lucy's Day, they make rice balls. There were personal reasons regarding an aunt of mine, who was thought to be going blind, and St. Lucy is the Patron Saint of the eyes....., anyway when my brother visited Sicily some years back he said they were selling riceballs. He got a kick out of it, because we thought it was only our family.

I took Italian in high school. My parents and grandparents spoke Sicilian, but I didn't learn it until the 1970's when I spent 3 weeks in Sicily with my family. When nobody around you speaks a word of English, you learn their language VERY quickly. I also spent a month there in 1979, which helped. However, as my mother and I don't use it all that often (my kids think we're talking about them!) anymore, I've started to lose it. When I visit, it starts to come back, but I haven't been able to afford that in five years.

St. Lucy is very big in Sicily, because she was from Siracusa. My mother said her family would NEVER eat wheat on her feast day (December 13th I think?). She was either martyred or raped in a wheatfield, and had her eyes put out as part of her torture, but God restored her sight. That's why she's the patron saint of eyes.

SB,

Do you know what (and I'm sounding this out) Pasta Mill-a-neeza is???? It's got tomato/fish sauce and fried bread crumbs on it???? Maybe you know it by another name? that was one of our Friday meatless meals.

TIS

Absolutely. My mother made it with sardines.

Well, when we meet, we'll have to discuss some of these foods. Being Sicilian I'm curious to see if you are familair with some of the things I grew up eating. Ha ha....a receipe exchange.


TIS

Doing an Internet search for pasta Milanese will give you lots of different recipes. Some of them have a similarity to what TIS mentioned.

Some, it should be noted, have no similarity whatsoever!



Think I'll be making this one very shortly; just last night I bought some sardines and tomato paste - an odd coincidence 'cause I haven't made a sauce with sardines in over a dozen years...

Ladies, you have made us very hungry. That seismic rumbling you hear is our stomach. Complaining.

Signor V.

I love food, too, Signor V. I wish I had more opportunity to cook. However, I am heating up some leftover Chinese food, so that will have to do.

TIS, I am definitely NOT a recipe person, more of a handful of this and dash of that kind of cook. My mother has few recipes, so I learned to cook that way. I remember when my brother was getting married, and his wife wanted my mother's recipe for meatballs and gravy. Since my mother had no idea how much of anything she used, my sister-in-law watched her and wrote everything down.

OK, here's a question - do you use breadcrumbs or soft bread in your meatballs? Also, I use an egg, but know people who use milk. Anyone else??

Ha ha!! Gravy???? You mean sauce? Didn't we have the gravy/sauce discussion before?

Yea, I really am not a big receipe saver either, except for things I don't make much and might be complicated. My Pasta sauce is in my head, and like you say, I don't necessarily measure anymore.

So, Vitelli are you in the kitchen now banging those pots and pans???? Save some pasta for your friends here on the BB.

TIS

We have definitely had the sauce/gravy discussion. And, until we all got so fancy, it was never pasta, just macaroni. And you had it every Sunday, and you had it with gravy.

Hey is it ok if I take notes? I'm tired of making the same ole stuff.

I found this article while looking for the Pasta references. My family always calls the sauce "sugu", and I see it's referenced in here too. Anyway, I'll post the whole article (see link), you might find it interesting.

BTW, are the places they mention in NYC?


Sunday pasta

"I cannot recall a Sunday without pasta and meat sauce. Spaghetti was the norm for Sicilians and macaroni for the Neapolitans. We fondly referred to them as ''Napolitanos.'' They were not so fond of Sicilians. They called us ''Sarrags.''

There was always meat sauce with meatballs, pork, bracciola and sometimes stretched with chicken. That was meat sauce, not gravy as some non-Italians may call it. My parents, grandparents and all the people in the area never heard of the word ''gravy.'' True Italians call it meat sauce or ''sugu.'' Also, I doubt that many of the homes had mayonnaise in their ice box then.

During the week, the food was usually vegetarian, with meals like pasta in combination with broccoli, or cauliflower, or peas and carrots, or asparagus, or with escarole, or rabe, or with garlic and oil. All these foods today are called healthy or gourmet dishes, when in fact it was ''Sicilian soul food.'' Other meals were omelets with cauliflower or asparagus, and artichokes stuffed or baked. Italian bread was always used.

No foods were wasted. Much of the meals were improvised, especially during World War II. Leftover bread was made into breadcrumbs using a hand grater. Toast was made on a triangular wire rack placed on the stove. Calzones were meat pies then referred to as ''scatch'' by the younger guys. They used up the meat leftovers. The stews and minestrone used up the vegetables. Also common was escarole and bean soup. Mason jars preserved our tomato sauce, peppers and mushrooms. Hard bread and coffee made a breakfast called ''souppa.''

Popular stores in the area were Leone's Soda Fountain at the corner of Essex and Newbury streets. On Essex Street there was Coco's Bakery, Joe's Shine Parlor, Sciuto's Dry Goods, Tom's Variety, the Essex Barbers, the Essex Fish Market and Mack's Men's Shop. On Common Street there was the Catania Restaurant, where the owner always gave the young guys extra-large portions.

There was Petralia's on Common Street for cold cuts and Italian imports; Carruba's on Newbury Street for lemonade or almonade, gelati and cannoli; DiGrazia Bakery on the corner of Common and Newbury for pasticiotti and lady fingers; Pappy's on Common Street for the seeded twist bread and round bread; Tripoli for bread and pastries; Fisichelli Bakery for biscotti and cassatas; Stamondo's for meat pie; Napoli on Garden Street for the best pizza ever and Jackson Bakery for doughnuts, crullers and Bismarcks.

In our neighborhood, you could bring a loaf of bread to Petralia's and have a sandwich made by Don Ciciu that consisted of a generous serving of capacollo, mortadella, provolone and tomatoes that made a large healthy sandwich.

Orange Phosphate was the drink of choice in their back room. Funny, when I was a boy, it looked like homemade wine. Funnier still, when I got older, it tasted like homemade wine -- wine like my grandfather made in his cellar on Union Street during the grape-squeezing time. The gutters leading to the sewers were purple throughout the neighborhood and the ''fetza,'' or squeezed out grape, from the bottom of the barrel was dispersed in various trash cans in the neighborhood so as to not show the garbage collectors how much wine was being made."

web page

TIS

TIS, what a great article! My mother STILL refuses to throw out old Italian bread, and saves it in the oven so that it dries out and makes good bread crumbs.

TIS: All the places mentioned in that (wonderful) article are in New Hampshire.

Now, to stray a little further OT, those of us with, er...long memories may want to check out this website:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/singingman777/DYR.htm

BTW, pot-banging at Bar Vitelli starts in around a half-hour. Those on the east coast should start noticing the delicious aroma shortly thereafter. Those on the west coast will, of course, notice it three hours earlier.

Signor V.

Vitelli,

That's great!! I must say I remember (even if some vaguely) almost all of them. What great memories.

You mean four fouls isn't an out anymore??? :p


Now, back in the kitchen young man. I want my pasta!!! By the time I wait that extra three hours I'll die of hunger.


TIS

SC,TB, PLaw and all of the "mature" crowd, click on Vitelli's link he posted. It's very nostalgic.

I'm flattered. Truth be told, I passed the half-century mark last year.

Signor V.

Signor Vitelli,

Those were great. Thanks for sharing with us. Pedal pushers made a comeback. I wonder why they changed the name to capri's

OK, here's my little trip down memory lane. Does anyone remember Bonomo Turkish Taffy, PF Flyers (guaranteed to make you run faster and jump higher), Spaldeens, or playing Red Rover? My favorite thing about Turkish Taffy was when you brought it home from the candy store, you would whack it on the stoop until it broke into a bunch of little pieces that you could share. Vanilla was my favorite flavor.

I have always been attracted to Italian culture and I have great respect for Italians. Their history, culture, food and WOMEN, have always let's say Intrigued me. I think that there are many similarities between Italian and South Asian cultures. Italians, Indians and Pakistanis share more than most would think...

A deep mistrust for authority bordering on general paranoia, an obsession with jewellery, gold jewellery in particular and having at least one jeweler in a family. Food. Eating, preparing, having meals together with family and close friends. Basically family is the most important thing to Italians and Indians and Pakistanis. Let's just say guineas and pakis for simplicity. :p

For language, the Italian and Subcontinental languages are both part of the Indo/European family of tongues. The Indian languages are Indo Iranian (Persian) and the Italian language (Sicilian of course too) is part of the Mediterranean branch. Basically I can understand and speak a little Hindi/Urdu, Gujarati and Farsi but not that much. English is my Mothertongue and I do my best with it. Spanish is extremely similar to Italian and I do speak Spanish fairly well. I am taking a summer school class at Y.U. in Introductory Italian and I assume that my background in Spanish will assist me in this endeavour, very much so.

Having said all this I can't stand Paki F.O.B.s, and Guineas. Just kidding, lol! Take it easy! :p

Bonomo Turkish Taffy? Absolutely. In the heat of summer, however, it was much easier to "whack" Bonomo after it was put in the refrigerator for a bit. Vanilla was also my favorite. Never cared much for strawberry.

PF Flyers? Oh yeah...to this day I still wonder if there really was a "wedge" built into the heel. I have this mental image of loads of kids secretly dissecting their sneakers.

Spaldeens? Definitely. Nobody, but nobody ever called it "Spalding", regardless of what was printed on the ball. ("Spalding" was The African Explorer...hooray, hooray, hooray! I'll have to ask Signora V.

Signor V.