I know we've kinda discussed this issue, but why wasn't Fredo invited to sit in on the family discussions? At Connie's wedding, Tom and Santino are there but Fredo is not allowed? When Don Vito gets shot everyone is in the office discussing what to do next, but Fredo wasn't invited? Did Don Vito just not think Fredo would get it? But then what did the Don want Fredo to do, just hang around and be?

In a word, yes.

Remember the scene in the garden when Vito and Mike were talking about their family. Vito knew that Sonny would have to go through all the hoops, and when it came to Fredo, Vito added, " And Fredo -- well -- Fredo was -- well -- ". I think that little bit of dialogue revealed a lot about how Vito felt about Fredo's abilities.

I'm not sure the word 'allowed' is appropriate...but anyway at our first introduction to Fredo (at least in the film) he is visibly tipsy when saying hello to Michael and meeting Kay. So one would understand why there would be no room for him in the Don's office during requests on his daughter's wedding day.

Second...Fredo was present at the initial meeting between Sollozzo & Vito and say what you will about his intelligence, but he at least knew not to speak out which is more than can be said for his brother Santino.

All in all, I agree with SC that up until the time he was shot, Vito might have tried in some way to give Fredo some kind of exposure/role in the Family Business. Eventually it became clear to all that he was incapable of handling any of it.

Apple

No, he's smaht, not dumb like everyone says.

Tom is the acting consiglerie,so he should be there,Vito has to be there( ),but Sonny wasnt there the whole time.He was there with Bonasera,then left then came back when Johnny was there. It seems Vito wanted Sonny there for some of the important stuff so he could learn some things for when he became the Don. Even then Fredo had no chance of being the Don because of Sonny,so he really didnt need to be there. Even though Fredo was his own son,he tried to keep as few people there as possible.

The novel providedes the definitive answer:
Fredo suffered a nervous breakdown when the Don was shot. When Sonny, Tom and Michael were discussing what to do next about Sollozzo and Tattaglia, they said Fredo was "in shock," and concluded, "keep Fredo out of this, keep him out of everything," (or some such--I don't have the novel in front of me). At some time after the shooting (probably before the Don returned home from the hospital), Fredo was sent to Vegas to "learn the hotel business" and was really out of it.

Look at Fredo's behaviors for the answer. At the wedding, which was a big social event and opportunity to network, Fredo chooses to get hammered. When Don Vito is shot, Fredo has a great opportunity to step up and gun those two bastards down as they ran away. Instead he fumbles his gun around (looking like he had never before even held a piece) and goes into shock. At Anthony's first communion party, he let's his wife make him look like a fool. He was an embarrassment to the family and not cut out for this business - plain and simple.

Did Fredo ever drink because maybe he was upset about not being able to run the family and being percieved as someone who couldn't do it?I've always wondered if this was a possibility, seeing as when we are introduced to him, he's tipsy. I'm most likely wrong, but just a thought.

Francesca, your point is supported in the Havana scene in II, when he and Michael go out to talk. Fredo says he needs a drink because he's "a little nervous" from the flight. When they're at the cafe, he orders a banana daquiri but Michael orders club soda. Later, at the Presidential Palace party, Fredo says he needs to "get me a real drink."

That is a great interpretation! You dont mind if I write in in my script,do you?

I thought Fredo had the "Jan Brady Complex" of being a middle child... Sonny was the hot looking, cool older brother and Michael was the hot looking wartime hero.... Fredo was the middle brother who was skinny with a big forhead and bad hair? He was upset because both brothers got the chicks.

As Francesca says, he was pretty drunk at Connie's wedding when he meets Kay for the first time, years before Havana.

That was long before he was "stepped over", and at a time when he was still considered part of the Corleone inner circle (He was at the Sollozzo meeting, for example). He had every reason to think at that point he would, at worst, be second in command to Sonny some day.

I think he just liked to drink, and the events as they played out simply exacerbated his problem.

Of course I don't mind if you use it in your script!
I'd forgotten about that Turnbull, thanks for bringing that point up.

But wasnt Fredo with all the women in Vegas or do you mean "upstanding" women?

I can give my take on it but it probably won't be very good: I think Michael and Fredo prior to Vito's shooting their roles were reversed. I think Michael was the one made out to be in the family and Fredo wasnt. I think that is why he drank so much because he was depressed that he didn't want to be in the business.

Interesting theory,but I think fredo really wanted to be in the business, to prove himself to Sonny and Vito.He was most likely always a screw-up due to his weak nature,and he desprately wanted to show he was indeed a Corleone.In the book he's described as a crutch to his father,but never going to really be much in the business. I do agree with half of what you said though,I think Vito would have much rather had Michael in the business than Fredo.

Don I was watching gf 2 as I posted it and about 3 minutes after I posted it was at the part when Fredo said about how it felt being passed up for the control of the family and all that so my theory really doesn't make total sense but I think some of it does

I have a little bit different take....

I think Don Corleone knew Sonny would go into the family business (he saw his father kill Fanucci) and he believed Fredo could help him in that quest.

Fredo was unassuming, and not so quick with business skills, but had the compassion and serenity to deal with some parts of business. The Don's structure relied on many aspects, including legitimate business (like Enzo, the Baker) and the politicians (Congressmen, Judges, DA's) and the larger Italian family (like Bonasera, etc) Although Fredo would not be in the former cliques, he could be the "compassionate ear" for that larger Italian Family.

The shooting of the Don changed that for Fredo, and he had a nervous breakdown. In this, he really could not recover, and began his career of being a ladie's man, and living the life of a playboy. In this, he saw Moe Green as an older brother, and especially since the loss of Santino.

Fredo could have been something more if not for that bit of bad luck. In this, his destiny is changed from one of assisting Sonny and Michael, to betrarying his family in his quest to have "something of his own."

Yeah I definately think Fredo wanted to be in the business,but Vito knew he would never amount to anything important ("and Fredo....well,Fredo was...well")