I know everybody talks about Vito michael or even Sonny's roll as the Don. I know people have there opinions on which one is the best for which reason. But most over look Tom, remember he was Don for a very short Time. I always thought Tom would make the best Don out of all of the Children. He seems to be the most clever and logical, he can even be ruthless when he needs to, When Tessio asks to get let off the hook Tom seems to show a level of pride when he "orders" the men to take him away. I got a sense he wanted Tessio to get his. Tom has always fascinated me and I wish he was concentrated on a little bit more. It was a real shame he was left out of part III because of a contract problem.

I coulden't agree with you more. Tom's only flaw was that he was not a Sicilian and therefore would not be respected by the other families as a true Don. Tom was I believe, the smartest, most reasonable, and business oriented of the sons. He knew when to be cunning. He took great care to follow Don Vito and learn his ways. The book goes into much more detail about this. Tom learned the most from Don Vito and I believe The Don would have wanted Tom to take over if he had been able to choose without "the Sicilian thing."

He knew when to be cunning?
Tom was smart, but he could not have lasted as the Don. He couldnt spot attacks comming. In the book hi beat himself up becuase he didnt see the hit on Sonny coming. He was as apt to be the Don as Fredo

Talk about not lasting long as don, Don Sonny Corleone..... JK

Well you do have a point after all Tom was kidnapped rather easily by Solazzo, but his advice should have been takin more seriously especially be Michael. The main part missing that I personally would like to witness was how Tom would react to the Fredo murder. They didn't go into it very much. Did Tom know about it before it happened? I am not sure.

I was taking your post seriously until I read that.

Tell me who did spot the attack on Sonny coming? Nobody. Tom tried to stop Sonny but Sonny woulden't listen. Tom beating himself up was a natural reaction to his best friend being murdered. Don Vito's statement, "Tom, I never thought you to be a bad consigliere, I thought Sonny a bad Don...'" says it for me.

The truth is that Sonny should have known better. He had a war going on, that he got them into in the first place and dug deeper, then he lost his temper and paid for it. Sonny acknowledges (in the book, I can't remember if he does in the movie. someone can correct me) that it was his fault Don Vito was attacked. He had leaked to Sollozo that he liked the idea. Tom wanted to go along with Sollozo in the beginning and never once let it on. Tom did warn Sonny that the war would be bad for both sides. He tried to talk Sonny out of the war to no avail. One thing Sonny never learned from his father was when to be reasonable, which Tom did.

As far as Tom being cunning. He talked, Sollozo into letting him go, Pentangelli into suicide, and Geary into taking the Corleone side among other things.

Tom did know about Michael wanting to kill Fredo. In the scene when Michael comes back from Cuba and asks Tom about Fredo, Tom ignores the question, until Michael asks a second time. Tom isin't deaf, he was just trying to ignore the question because he knew Michael wanted to find Fredo to punish him for the betrayal. Tom didn't want that to happen so he was hoping Michael would just forget about it.

I may sount stupid when I say this, but when was Tom a Don??? Sonny took over when Vito was in the hospital, then Vito came back, then Michael took over and then Vincent in 1979/80. The only thing you could be referring to is when Michael was in Cuba and told Tom to watch over things, but I dont know if anyone really considered Tom a Don then. Did I miss something??

I am considering that period of time when Mike was in Cuba as Tom being a Don. He was told to handle the family affairs when Michaels was gone. He did seem to fit the role nicely in the scenes when he was in chargee.

Ah, ok, just checking. For your other post tho, just because Sonny and Hagen were temporarily in charge for short periods of times does not mean that they were dons and probably shouldnt be on the list you have there.

From the transcript, Michael literally labels him as the new don:

Personally, I think that Tom's best role is the consiglieri. He was probably the most intelligent and knowledgeable in the Corleone family, but he lacked the certain boldness and cunning, and ruthlessness that Sonny, Michael, Vito, Clemenza, and the rest of the gang all seemed to have.

I don't think I've ever really seen Tom get mad, excluding his conversations with Sonny. I'd say he could survive as a Don, but not for long and he's much better suited to the role of consiglieri.

I hear all this bla bla bla about tom. But u are all over looking the best person for the job, Carlo. He may of abused connie but that was a show of how powerful he is. He is by far the smartest. He was smart enough to trade on sonny because sonny died shortly after so it didnt harm him anyways. Carlo would be the don today if it wasnt for that bastard michael.

This is one scenario I could have seen for GF III (presuming Tom Hagen was still alive):

The year is 1978. Michael Corleone is a) either injured in a hit attempt, or under severe scrutiny by the Feds as part of a federal investigation.

Michael appoints Tom Hagen the Don to act in his absence. In order to draw attention of the Feds away from the Corleone organization, Michael will go into semi-retirement. The only family personnel who will remain under Michael's control are Al Neri, Vincent Mancini, and Michael Francis (Rizzi) Corleone (along with his mother, Connie, who begins taking an active behind-the-scenes role as consigliera.)

After a period of several months, possibly a couple of years, the Feds drop their investigation of the Corleone organization, mainly because of Don Tom Hagen's skill in maneuvering the family out of high-risk criminal activities. (They are still INVOLVED in criminal activities, just Tom is skillful in keeping them from getting caught and keeping the heat off.)

At this time, the Corleone Circle (the mini-family unit commanded by Michael) wants to assimilate the larger family organization and reassert Michael's control as Don. Spurred on by power-hungry, manipulating Connie and the still-fearsome Al Neri, the fiery young cousins, Vinnie and Mikey, recruit some new street thugs/button men, and the Circle has the muscle to make things happen.

So Don Tom Hagen is faced with a decision: Accept Michael's power play and accept Michael as overall Don? And Michael has a decision too: Bring back Tom as the No. 2 man, after he's been No. 1 for a couple years? Can you trust him?

Anyway, that's what **I** would have done for GF III. The Vatican/Immobliare story line would still have been in the movie, perhaps as the occasion or opportunity for Michael and Tom to decide to merge the two organizations back together, but its script time would have been cut probably in half. The Mary/Vincent romance storyline would also have been cut way back.

The Joey Zasa/Atlantic City massacre subplot would have stayed in, but moved toward the end of the movie. With the Corleone organization split into two groups, other families would have tried to play off one against the other - raising the stakes on the decisions being made by Michael and Tom.

Are you telling me there is no carlo. That idead blows. How can u have a godfather without carlo. Thats why part II and part III bombed.

Tom was smart, logical, had good business sense and was totally, completely loyal. But he wouldn't have made a good Don. He was a fine counsel for a "legitimate business," but he lacked the combination of personal force and Sicilian cunning required for a great Don running a Mafia family.
Example of lacking personal force: He counseled Michael against whacking Sollozzo and McCluskey, a good business decision, but one that didn't solve the problem of how to keep Vito from being attacked again. He told Michael it would be "impossible" to kill Roth at the airport--very sound, very logical, but failing to take into account the need for Michael to maintain his reputation for ruthlessness and thus discourage others from even trying to attack him.
Example of lacking Sicilian cunning: IMO, Tom should have figured out that Carlo, humiliated by Sonny's beating and his exclusion from the family's inner circle, would, as a Sicilian, seek revenge. Sure, he tried to stop Sonny's car when Sonny went after Carlo. But he should have warned Sonny long before that to expect some such move from Carlo. And in GFII, Tom didn't know that Pentangeli had survived the attack in the bar, leading him to counsel Michael to commit five counts of perjury. After the perjury, he tells Michael, "Our people with the NY detectives said he was half-dead, scared, talking out loud about how you betrayed him." DUH, Tom: where you and your people with the NY detectives before you counseled your client to perjure himself?

Tom was smart, logical, had good business sense and was totally, completely loyal. But he wouldn't have made a good Don. He was a fine counsel for a "legitimate business," but he lacked the combination of personal force and Sicilian cunning required for a great Don running a Mafia family.
Example of lacking personal force: He counseled Michael against whacking Sollozzo and McCluskey, a good business decision, but one that didn't solve the problem of how to keep Vito from being attacked again. He told Michael it would be "impossible" to kill Roth at the airport--very sound, very logical, but failing to take into account the need for Michael to maintain his reputation for ruthlessness and thus discourage others from even trying to attack him.
Example of lacking Sicilian cunning: IMO, Tom should have figured out that Carlo, humiliated by Sonny's beating and his exclusion from the family's inner circle, would, as a Sicilian, seek revenge. Sure, he tried to stop Sonny's car when Sonny went after Carlo. But he should have warned Sonny long before that to expect some such move from Carlo. And in GFII, Tom didn't know that Pentangeli had survived the attack in the bar, leading him to counsel Michael to commit five counts of perjury. After the perjury, he tells Michael, "Our people with the NY detectives said he was half-dead, scared, talking out loud about how you betrayed him." DUH, Tom: where were you and your people with the NY detectives before you counseled your client to perjure himself?

Turnbull~

I see what your saying but at the same time nobody caught those things. The Lost Don was asking if Tom would have made a good Don. I believe yes. He made mistakes, but which Don didnt make mistakes. Even Don Vito made mistakes (Sollozo).

And about the perjury. How Tom didn't know about Pentagelli still being alive, how could he know if his people didn't know? I'm always confused by that type of statement. Tom did a huge number of things for the family from running the reg. businesses to hiding stocks in Las Vegas. Thinking about everything he did in paperwork alone still spins my head. Maybe I got the wrong impression and I would really like to hear yours, but the majority of the time I felt as if Tom did everything as consigliere while Michael just sort of rested and made the huge decisions and gave Tom dirty looks when he forgot one detail.

Zasa doesn't run the Corleone organization. He has his own family that took over what the Corleones used to own.

Zasa runs a splinter group broken off from the Corleone family, which has operated for some time with at least the tacit approval of Michael Corleone.

Zasa is also in league with Altobello and Lucchesi. Zasa would attempt to capitalize on a split *inside* the Corleone organization and play both factions off against the other, and probably form an alliance with whichever faction appeared likely to take the upper hand.