I was curious who was loyal to Orena and who was loyal to Persico? I know Tommy Shots Gioeli was loyal at first to Orena then switched over to Persico. How does one get away with showing loyalty to one side and then be trusted by the faction he was originally fighting agaisnt? Also, do you guys feel underboss Scopo jr would've been murdered like Wild Bill if he wasn't gunned down back in 93'? I know it is hypothetical but if Scopo didn't die would he still be eliminated for him being seen as a threat to Persico?

Google ''The third Colombo War'' Persico vs Orena

I do know the Orena faction had the advantage and I think Vic would have been boss but Scarpa and his handler messed that up,


Most of the guys wanted Vic to be boss

Orena faction should have won the war however, Scarpa had the FBI on his side as such they were able to hold out and hold on.

If it weren't for Scarpa being in bed with the feds Persico? Loses hands down.

The Gambino's, Bonanno's, Decalvacante's and the commission were backing Orena.

Wild Bill was whacked because they thought he would make a move to take over the family.

If Scopo lived and was part of that I guess he would have been marked for death as well.

I think one of the reasons the Persico faction won was because, early on, they decided to go after everybody and not only focus on High profile targets.

When The Persicos decided to go full time war, Carmine Sessa wanted the hit teams to focus on the main leaders in the Orena faction but Greg Scarpa convinced them to try to hit whoever they can. It didn't matter if he was an associate or a made guy (we now know that he didn't have to worry about Law Enforcement).

The Persico faction was able to kill a few associates and that definitely affected the other side. Mazza said how everything changed when, in a matter of days, the Persicos killed Nicky Black and some associates. The whole momentum changed afterwards. It was not only a high profile man like Nicky Black but the fact that they were able to kill guys on a regular basis.

Gotti in Orena’s ear ...

Gotti was trying to get Colombo’s on his side because the other families were coming for him ( Carmine never liked Gotti) and was on board to kill him .... the guys Gottis age and Orena’s were all coming into their own even if they had to steal it and thats what was happening.


We all know it was few key things that went down for Perscio’s to maintain control even from prison .... with little help from the feds .... but that was all a game to just put them away for life later .

Feds set these guys up !
.... put the dope or the guns in there hand .... supply the money just to get a wise guy to make a move .... just to bust him ....terrible.... think feds are just as guilty ..... but we know how that game goes.... after all our government are the bookies & drug dealers now .... you watch within 10 years all street drugs will be decriminalized and the government will sell them all .

He didn't have the FBI on his side. He had one corrupt agent on his side.

That one corrupt agent represents the entire agency Moe. The entire FBI is rotten to the core. The whole damn System is fucked Moe.

The mob needs to put two rules in place:

Rule 1: No more bosses ruling from prison

Rule 2: Never ever under any circumstances should there be fighting within the borgata.

So just because Tim Donaghy was corrupt, everyone in the NBA is?

Just because the Catholic church has a problem with priests molesting children, the entire Catholic church is corrupt?

Just because Harvey Weinstein raped people, everyone in Hollywood is corrupt?

Every organization has its bad apples, nobody and nothing is immune to that.

The mob, by its very definition, are bad apples who have a detrimental effect on society, and just because some lawmen are corrupted by their power, it doesn't give them free rein to carry out their crimes.

Hell, even the mob has its bad apples, if you can call them that, in the form of guys who cooperate with the feds.

It's crazy to label an entire organization as corrupt because of one person.

Law enforcement agencies are evil and shady by their very nature, doing the State's bidding. Spying on citizens, oppressing the populace. They're way worse than the Mafia Moey.

This happen because there dont exist a commission anymore. The 5 bosses in a commission in 1991 could force Persico to retire and made Orena new boss. The rule 1 could be that a boss that get a long sentence should automatly step down.

Colonel Reb has not been on in a while, he was going to post some of the files he has on that war from Greg Scarp's FBI file. I'm hoping he eventually does. Scarpa having that agent and the FBI team he was in giving them tips was a huge advantage to their side.

Furio, the commission did exist in 1991.

Gigante would never allow Orena to be the new boss because Orena was a Gotti ally and it would swing the commission vote 3-2 in favour of Gotti (with Orena and Massino's votes). The commission vote was tied 2-2 (Orena was the Colombo representative but as an acting boss and not official boss he couldn't sit on the commission) which is why they couldn't stop the Colombo war. There was other motives as well such as letting the two Colombo factions decimate each other so the other families can divide up their rackets between themselves.

What really lost Orena, the war was when they messed up the Scarpa hit.
If they killed Scarpa, they cut off the FBI...

And Scarpa, did most of the killing...

If you minus him out of the equation
Orena, wins hands down.

If in 1991 there was a Commission why they didnt stop Orena? The third colombo war generate too much heat on the NY Mafia.

Families are autonomous to handle their own affairs