I remember reading somewhere that Castellano planned to hit John and Gene then break up John's crew. I know officially Castellano wanted to hit John and Gene for selling drugs, but was that the only reason?

Castellano wanting to break up Gotti's crew suggests he was afraid John and his crew were getting too powerful and becoming a threat. What do you guys think?

Gotti is said to have rationalized the hit on Castellano as "kill or be killed." It could have been true. Supposedly the dinner at Sparks was to inform Gotti and others that Bilotti would be the new underboss, and that Gotti's crew would be dismantled. I doubt he would have been whacked at that meeting, but Gotti had good reason to infer he wouldn't live much longer.

I don't know if Castellano thought that Gotti and his crew were becoming so powerful that they were a physical threat to him--maybe, maybe not. But, their drug dealing was a threat to Castellano's defense in his upcoming RICO trial, and their loyalty to the departed Neil Dellacroce was a thorn in Big Paul's side.

Sounds like Castellano was going to hit Gotti, and dismantling his crew was the first step.

I think Paul wanted to kill Gotti but knew it would have brought more heat to him. Remember this was during the Commission case. However it’s true that Paul was planning to break Gotti down to a soldier and reassigning the Bergin crew to others crews. Gotti would have been finished if that happened. That’s why he desperately needed Frank Decicco and Sammy To help him otherwise he would have never been able to pull off the hit

Speaking of contract hits;

Shouldn't have Gotti got whacked around 1980-1981 for flat out refusing to take out Roy DeMeo??

Castellano wanted the Bergin Hunt Fish Crew to take out Roy but they refused.... If it was Nicky Scarfo or someone like Casso/Amuso; They all would have been whacked or bumped down.

Castellano had the motive to take out Gotti once he refused the Roy DeMeo hit. You don't refuse a request from a boss..

The more I read or learn about Castellano; He just was sooo out of touch....

I remember someone is law enforcement saying castellano was going to break up the bergen crew and possibly demote Gotti. A lot of guys in that crew earned and their income would of been very effected.
Of course anyone with a brain would of assumed the damage control wouldnt of ended there and Gotti, ruggiero, and gene gotti could of been killed to protect castellano in case he was dragged into a drug case. Castellano also knew Gotti had a big crew , was respected, and viewed him as a threat. Im sure Gotti was aware of that scenario as well.

I remember saying the same thing when Steven Mazzone backed out of a hit on Veasey because Veasey was too wild and unpredictable.

Im not so sure i buy into the whole gotti was afraid of the demeo crew theory. Gotti had a bigger crew and had strong support from dellacroce and gotti had no shortage of shooters. Gotti may have had a good relationship or strong business relationship with demeo. Gotti also had strong ties to other crews not only with the gambino’s but with other families.

Gotti was afraid of the Demeo crew. Gene Gotti admitted it on a wiretap in 1982. He also feared Gaspipe. Casso killed Ed Lino and Bobby Boriello without any retribution from Gotti. Angelo was the one who put out a hit on Casso in 1986 because Casso had called Angelo an idiot. Gotti was the one who desperately made peace with the Lucchese Family. Look we all agree Gottiwas s tough guy but saying he feared nobody is false

I think it was mostly Neil. Neil was the main reason Gotti survived long enough to be able to do the hit. I agree Paul was out of touch BUT Paul did have a mean streak. I mean he ordered the murders of BOTH his daughters boyfriends, Nicky Scibetta, The eppolitos, Johnny Keys Simone, Frank Piccolo, and Roy Demeo. The Piccolo murder was a big mistake by Paul as well as his greed.

no hit was planned on gotti.

break up his crew than kill him..? no..kill him then break up his crew..

The contract was offered to Gotti, like it was offered to others, he wasn't ordered to hit DeMeo.

What makes you say that?

rat after rat. then gravano

Any rats from Big Paul's inner circle?

I don't think Big Paul would have let Gravano in on any planned hit on Gotti. The two hated each other.

I think Paul's biggest mistake was thinking that since he inherited Carlo's business,that he also inherited the respect that Carlo commanded. The Gotti faction basically humored him, and pretty much laughed behind his back. Had Paul whacked Angelo right away for his drug operation,he would have been in a better position to neutralize Gotti

Because of the Commission edict, no made guy would have taken Angelo's side,and no one would have dared to publicly criticize Paul. Then he could have freely dismantled the Bergin crew. Because of Neil's intercession,Angelo lived long enough to set the wheels in motion for the hit on Paul.

Can you imagine a real Boss (like Chin) constantly asking for the tapes like Paulie did,only to be stonewalled (more than once). My personal opinion is that the conversation would go along these lines; "I want them tapes. I'm sending a guy over on Monday.He either comes back with the tapes or a leg. I send him over Tuesday,he comes back with the tapes or the other leg. after that, it's gonna get ugly. What do ya wanna do?"

@Lou_Para.

No question; If it was Chin asking for those tapes. They would have been handed over to him ASAP. If not; You'de be thrown from the top of a building ..

No-one defied Chin.

Speaking of Castellano; The more I hear about him; Tony Ducks and Chin were light-years better then him as a boss.

Both never had opposition.

I think Paul has both positives and negatives as a boss. I know the biggest criticism of Paul was that he was out of touch with the street guys which is true BUT it was probably smart for him to stay away as much as possible. As respected as Neil was he was constantly under indictment or investigation. When the FBI did surveillance at the Ravenite between April-August 1979 it was reported that Neil was their for 120 days in that period do he put himself out there. Paul obviously was a big earner and the Gambino was hugely profitable during his reign. Obviously he was very good with white collar crimes which brought in the biggest amount of money. But Paul was a greedy bastard. His greed certainly was a big reason for his downfall. Also like I pointed out in an earlier post the Piccolo murder was a big mistake by him and lost him more respect. Then the whole thing with the maid didn’t help. But in fairness it was the actions of the Bergin crew Drug dealing that led to the feds being able to bug His house.

Why was Tommy Bilotti not in touch with what was going on in the streets? Wasn't he supposed to be Paul's "street" guy? Its just interesting that a Family that large would either completely turn on and the others be totally ignorant of what was going on to warn Castellano.

Bilotti was referred to as a “abusive gorilla” by some members plus he stayed very close to Paul. This was also during the Commission Trial. Paul was trying to avoid as much heat/exposure as possible which is probably a major reason he didn’t attend Neil’s wake

Wasn't Gotti also incensed at the fact that Paul was a no-show at Dellacroce's funeral?
I personally feel that Jimmy Brown Failla should have been Gambino's successor than Paul.

Nah Frank Decicco was the best choice. Jimmy Brown would have been a big pushover when dealing with other families

In their bio of Castellano, "Boss of Bosses," Kurins and O'Brien list several beefs that Gambino soldiers and associates had against Big Paul:
--He never mixed with or socialized with people under him, preferring to summon a select few come to his Staten Island mansion.
--He dissed Neil by failing to come to his wake or funeral.
--He made concessions to other families that disadvantaged his people.
--He carried on, openly, with his Colombian housemaid, Gloria Olarte, right under his roof with his wife present.
--He involved himself in nickle-and-dime deals that should have been left to lower level people.
--Most important: he cheaped out on his people, refusing to share the wealth.

Kurins and O'Brien also say that the other Dons were pissed because they heard Castellano, on tapes, dissing them. They also feared that he'd rat them out rather than spend the rest of his life in prison where he would be away from his beloved Gloria.

BTW: In "Underboss," Peter Maas's bio of Gravano, Da Bull denigrates Castellano as a mere "racketeer," whereas he and Gotti were real "gangsters."

I think arrogance and/or overconfidence is what led to Castellano's downfall, as it did with Galante, Gotti, Bonanno, Scarfo, Anastasia, Gigante, etc.

The older mafia bosses that die naturally share the wealth
When they are.alive. Gambino....Accardo..Patriarca..LaRocca..Scalish...Civella.
Zerelli....Tocco...

Not Gigante...to subtle..And my old associate Scarfo , well , he was just a psyco, murder crazy & ARROGANT asshole who brought down our whole borgata.,,he was a beautiful guy on the norm , but when it came 2 bizness, if he didn't like u,,,u were gone..thats that.....nobody could help u.