I'm here in England and most of the news coverage has been concentrated on the World Trade Centre but they did say that another plane had crashed in Pennsylvania but there was no specific details.

It's unbelievable, I can't quite believe whats going on over there, i'd like to offer my condolences to those of you affected in any way at all.

I still say it's cowardly. Every act of agression where the agressor does not show his face is a cowardly act.

What do you have against George W Bush? OK he's my fellow Texan and that means a lot to me, but this is not a time to be criticizing our president.

SC< there is no way that a pilot would take the plane into a building like that, esp with so much water around. They have been showing the flight path on TV and you can tell that the plane was overtaken. They turned very sharply and lost altitude, etc before coming back East to NYC.

The terrorists had to have some flight training. And they had to have taken out the Captain and First Officer. There is no way to tell what happened (yet) but I would swear on the souls of my grandchildren that the AA pilot was disabled or dead - they would not have crashed into that building.

BTW my husband agrees.

Did you hear/see the Arabs cheering?

I saw that, and it made me very angry. I'm not one for censoring the news, but those televised scenes are going to incite a lot of Americans. I've heard rumors that many Muslim cab drivers (here in NY) were being beaten, cursed at, spit on, etc. I hope these stories are false.

Hey Joey it wasn't me who asked about cowardice.

SC glad your friend is ok.

Another weird thing is that all four were what we call transcon flights - coast to coast. That means they were really loaded up on fuel.

And it is fortunate that they were practically empty...These were very large jets, three widebodies, but only 200 passengers between the four flights. It could have been very much worse.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Vendetta ]

It is really more a question of editing than censorship. An editor has to make the call whether to show it or not. I say show it. At least we know what we are up against.

The devil you don't know is worst than the devil you know.

Or something like that.

The FBI just confirmed that the plane that went down in Pennsylvania was bound for Camp David.

have they said which plane went where? All I know is one of the AA planes went into the WTC. I don't know if they have confirmed which one crashed in Penn.

Isn't Camp David in Maryland? Maybe it was headed south toward MD from PA.

Hey AppleOnYa! Nice to see you here. Like the name too.

I live nowhere near either of the coasts and I am at work today listening to the radio and net-surfing as details have been trickling in....

Even here, our major malls are closed, we have had some school closings, even the main highway which goes past our FAA building has been closed. Our airport here has hundreds of people stranded here from the flights which were diverted. We also have alot of military bases and top secret labs around so security is real tight all around. I work in a government building and people here are even panicked. It is really sad how our whole nation has been affected.

I loved the World Trade Center too...

Very True. I am far too young to have any memory of the Kennedy assassination but I do agree this will be a day that will live in my memory forever.

The only other "moment" I ever had was the feeling I had with the Challenger disaster. Total disbelief combined with sorrow and confusion.

#1. #2, #6 and #7 WTC have all come down. Does anybody know where there is a map of the WTC online?

We are going to NYC on the 21st...I wonder if everything will be open, etc.

Any thoughts from New Yorkers? I don't even know if they will have the feast in Little Italy.

It will probably take some time to recover, but I am a firm believer in carrying on and not letting the bastards keep us down.

Is today's date just a coincidence?

9/11/01

You know....nine-one-one - emergency??

You are pointing out something.......

I have no idea about what the near future holds for the City. The Mayor just announced that all of Manhattan below 14th Street will be "closed" tomorrow (to help clear the way for emergency service workers).

Here's a map of the WTC complex:
The map is set up in the right direction (ie. north is top). The first plane hit Tower #1 on the north side (near #6 on the map). The second plane hit Tower #2 on the south side (Liberty Street).




[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: SC ]

SC - Thanks for the map. Do you know where Building #7 is (was) in relation to the others?

This whole thing still hasn't sunk in; but I know I've been very distressed all day and continue to be.

I look forward to the President's address at 9pm ET tonight, but I feel it's still too early to announce specificly who's responsible and what course of action we will take.

I was unnerved at the sight of the Palestian children dancing in the streets, but I'm glad I saw it. It should not have been censored to protect us from becomming infuriated -- as we already are.

As for the plane that went down outside of Pittsburgh, I still have not heard that it was headed for Camp David; but it does not suprise me. I know that where they fell was not the intended location of the suicidal terrorists.

My brother got out of the city, after about 8 hours. And he was in Midtown, where he reported people running towards the west side to look for a way out. I cannot imagine what it was like Downtown - the horror of it all.

My hearts go out to all the vicitims. Please pray for them in whatever method you are accustomed to.

The skyline we are all accustomed to will never be the same.



JG

NYC will never be the same.Innocent people have died.NYC might never be the great place it was.One of the greatest places in the world might lose some of its greatness with this attack.A sad sad thing has occured not just because of NYC maybe losing its tourists and attractions but also because of the lives lost.

This I disagree with.

New Yorkers (residents and workers alike) are some of the greatest anywhere, this proven by their actions during this catastrophe. Had this happened in some other countries I can think of, there'd've been rioting and looting - New Yorkers have shown they have class and actual regard for others when it comes down to it.

We're just rude and obnoxious on a good day.

JG

They are now saying 200 of NYC's Firefighters and about 100 Police are unaccounted for. And they are showing the first photos from within the WTC onMSNBC.

They are also now saying the Marriott hotel has also collapsed.

sorry to say that they are also reporting looting in Brooklyn, no doubt by people taking advantage of the fact that many police are in Manhattan.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Vendetta ]

Thankyou for the closure.

From what I can remember, #7 was on Vesey Street, so if you're looking at the map, it was just above #5. By the way, #7 was a pretty good sized building itself (it had over 40 floors).



I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've been watching Channel 2's coverage all day, and even though I've seen all the videos countless times, it really hasn't registered. I think I'm in shock.

I keep thinking I'm watching ID4 or something and am watching the fake news reports on attacks. You know that footage of the 2nd plane hitting the 2nd tower? I keep thinking that it was a fake, "it's only a model" sort of thing.

I did, and it made me mad as hell?

Now, did anyone else think that this might be a home grown attack, like what happened in Oklahoma??

I don't think it was "home grown" -- Americans aren't so stupidly suicidal, and many fingers point to that exhiled Arab scumbag. But whoever it is, I hope they're found very quickly, and given a slow and painful rubbing out...

JG

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: J Geoff ]

Yeah all reports point to that piece of sh*t. I am not sure when it it was ordered as i was at work but for awhile a few well traveled highways in nebraska which is where i live was shutdown cause president bush spent some time at the bunker at offat airforce base. in omaha. i should say all highways around the base were shutdown and they are well traveled as i have driven past offat airforce base more than once.

En-route to and from my job in Northern NJ, I've always enjoyed clear view of the Manhattan skyline. Occassionally I would glance at it and many times not even take notice, it was such a familiar part of the daily routine.

Yesterday driving home, and again this morning going back to work, I took it in every chance I got. There, as always, was the Empire State Building. Several miles to the south, where the Twin Towers used to be, was a billowing cloud of smoke and dust. I found myself wishing I could go back in time just 24 hours, to take in one more look at something I had always taken completely for granted.

This isn't merely about the loss of a landmark; it's is about much more than that. I think that the great Paul Harvey, in his daily radio comments, put it more perfectly than I could ever dream....

"Hug your children closely. Behind their facade of bravado, they have been raped."

I also wholeheartedly agree w/ JGeoff's statement that this will NOT make NYC less great than it was. The spirit of the city and those who live/work there is invincible, and it WILL rise from this madness, quite possibly with a level of greatness than it didn't have before.

Apples

Just listen to Rudie Giuliani. He knows New Yorkers, and assures us they will get over it in the long-term. It was a devastating attack, but not one that "hurt our foundations" (Bush).

I'm not from anywhere near NY, but I have always liked Rudy Guiliani and I have been very impressed with his resolve so far.

Another person I always have liked is Mario Cuomo and I saw him interviewed this morning and he brought up some real good points:

Many Americans are very angry and rightfully so. But when the dust settles, and we get on with our lives, one day at a time, we have to deal with tighter security in the future. Americans are empathetic and angry now but just wait until one of us is late for a flight and want to get through security in a hurry. Mario reminds us we must abide by whatever sanctions are put in place, as they will be there for a reason.

I work with a woman who is bitching up a storm because she is angy at "airport security" (yeah, like who's he? Mr. Airport Security) for breaching safety and security and "allowing" this to happen. But I know her pretty well and I would venture she is one mean bee-atch if made to wait in line at an airport. It is the old....do unto others, not to me.

And I might get reamed here- but here goes: Airport security people are just like you and me...they have headaches, hangovers, fight with their kids, their spouses, they have bad days and get paid poop. They are just PEOPLE doing a job. I would like to think we learned a big lesson here and mandate for better training for these people and hope they realize the importance of their positions but I maintain the only people we can place blame on at this time, are the people directly involved in causing mass casualties.

Sorry, what started as a kudos going out to my man Mario ended in me being on my soapbox. For those of you who know me by now, you know that I dont do that often...

I am usually the quiet, shy one haha.

I found out a little earlier that one of the firemen killed was a guy from the neighborhood, Tim Stackpole.

Tim was severely injured in a fire a few years ago, and was hospitalized, recovering for over a year. He could have retired with a disability pension, but he wanted to get back to work doing what he loved - helping people.

He started working again this past spring, and now he's gone.

My sympathies are with his wife, Tara, and their five kids.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: SC ]

What Beth E says is so true.
On another list I belong to, the husband of a well-known member was killed on one of the planes that crashed into the WTC. We were given an address to send condolences.

On a happier note: I know a woman who worked in law offices at the WTC; because her babysitter quit suddenly last Friday, she had to take the week cause she had no one to take her daughter to school....

Apples

Well i'm just glad Vita likes the same things I do. I for one am a big supporter of Mario Cuomo, an anti-death penalty advocate, and am also a fan of old Rudy. Oh, and olive-skined dark haired ladies.