say Gotti was a nobody before he became boss? I mean he was essentially a captain before he was even made, he was never even a soldier(I realize Neil was a significant factor in that). I also remember in the Mikey Scars Testimony, him saying that in the late 70s Paulie Zac, a respected capo, saying to Scars that Gotti is gunna be the next boss of the family. Could this maybe be a hindsight is 20/20 thing, being that Gotti wasnt a great boss when he actually became boss?

When the opportunity was there he reached out and grabbed it - whether it was getting made, being given a crew, or becoming boss. Other guys were killed for showing just as much ambition but his whole rise was almost a perfect storm.

Honestly I've never heard anybody say that. He wasn't as respected as some other capos but of course he was a powerful guy. Not as big of an earner as some of the "white-racket" captains but he did well.

How would a "nobody" get the support needed to break the cardinal rule and take out a boss, and then live to enjoy the spoils?

Who said he was a nobody. The faticos and neil definetly helped him along the way. Yes he was acting capo before he got made and a official capo soon after getting made BUT i still dont consider him a good leader. He was basically a hijacker, he had no idea about white collar crimes. His gambling habits drained the crews profits which was part of the reason they resorted to drug dealing

he did not get the support of other bosses, that's why gigante tried to kill him, to most bosses he was a royal pain in the ass, bringing down the heat on everyone.

eventually hurting the Gambino family, and his big mouth causing Sammy gravano to snitch.

Sammy Gravano had never done a prison term prior to the RICO indictment with John Gotti. Gotti's tapes may have contributed to Gravano flipping, but I'm willing to bet that him never really doing any jail time had a lot to do with it.

I am aware that he didnt get support from the other bosses, but his standing in the family was strong, otherwise he couldnt have done it. In my opinion that means he wasnt a nobody.

Again who said he was a nobody? I think people are just saying he wasnt this feared great boss as the media suggested. As another poster said he was more of a pain in the ass than anything. Even as a capo i dont think he was great and lets face it since Neil has control of certain crews he made the decisions and for whatever reason he took a shine to gotti.

Is that the only time in history anybody here knows of a guy who isn't even straightened out being acting captain?

..are not able to give a meaningful and senseful thread-name.

The few people I know started out as thieves. Then from their they got into other things.

You think these guys are brilliant?

I walked out of the movie The Score because I never saw anyone who could do the score DeNiro did in that movie.

A score to me is steal a truck crash into Kings Plaza just before the last movie let out. Crash into a closed Jewelry store take what you can grab. Then drive back out

A lot of the purple gang were not convicted of any crimes while they were still with them.

Oh today you could not even do the score I said.

They have obstacles in from of king plaza entrances. No more movie theather.

Obviously he wasn't a nobody since he eventually became world renowned. He was just a little superior to the rest of the Gotti brothers, either in intellect, or force of will, but it was their collective influence that magnified John Gotti. By himself, he wasn't very substantial, not even after becoming Boss.

Remember Beefsteak Charlie's?

Wow, the movie theater upstairs is gone?.. Things change.

We used to go in the side entrance on Ave u, walk right in and up the stairs.

john was quite jealous of his younger brother gene who was made before he was

I did a lot of work in Kings plaza. It was like I owned it I even have a relative that was head of security in there. The night shift Sargent we paid him off to look the other way.

He did something we did not like. He own a liquor store. We robbed his store in the middle of the night. Took all his inventory out in two trucks.

He comes in the next night he is all upset. I told him that's terrible do you need a short term loan to get restocked

It got to the point no one parked Cadillac's in that garage.

They used to make armored car pickups from the east 55 street ramp. They were robbed so now you see the armoured car on the ave U street exit.

Every guard in that place when they stopped using K security were all thieves. They all had guns when they were not supposed to carry guns.

Store owner has an argument with a guard. Had to tackle the guard before he could shoot the store owner.

You know ehy we stopped him the store owner was borrowing money. The guards were loaned out the money.

A lot of wild kids walking around in the mall. We used some of them to do jobs here and their.

Beefsteak Charlie's no I remember cookies stake pub. We used to eat that appetizer at the bar I called it dog food Swedish meatballs

Remember the airport club a cross the street.

forgive me,I didnt mean a "nobody"oviously,badchoiceofwords.I have just heard alot of differet people say thigs like him beig a relative brokester and not very respected.I've heard worse things but wont state them until I find a source to provide along with the statements.

I think the general thinking is, he really wasn't qualified to be the boss of the family. A captain of a "blue collar" crew in Queens involving in the standard mob staples of gambling, loansharking, hijacking, drug trafficking, etc.? Yes. But not the head of the whole enterprise. And I think history bore that out. It's not that Gotti was dumb. Gravano even said he was quite smart. And he was capable of winning the loyalty of guys more capable than himself. But the almost overnight change blew his ego beyond all comprehension, he threw caution to the wind, and the family - as well as guys from other families - paid for it.

Gotti is one of the reasons I don't dismiss Castellano.

Castellano wanted money, not street-cred.

Gotti was too high-profile and had a 'try and get me' attitude, resulting in a revenge agenda by law enforcement and Giuliani.

Castellano knew the world was changing. Blue-collar crime needed to be replaced by more sophisticated forms of crime on top of the usual scams.

The only question today is: does white collar crime make more money than blue collar? I'd say so, unless we're talking about drugs.

Yes. Exactly right.

I wouldn't say he was a nobody, but he was a street thug not fit to become a boss. I see him as a slightly smarter version of Tommy Bilotti and dumber version of Neil Dellacroce. He came along 30 years too late.