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Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
#787010
07/03/14 02:00 PM
07/03/14 02:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Iceman999
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I'd read and heard in interviews that part of Angelo Bruno's power came from his friendship/association with Carlo Gambino. The theory being the Genovese Family waited til Carlo Gambino's death to extend their influence in Philadelphia by giving their tacit approval to kill Bruno, I was wondering why Paul Castellano didn't offer Bruno that same friendship as CG1 did?
Last edited by Iceman999; 07/03/14 02:02 PM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787013
07/03/14 02:04 PM
07/03/14 02:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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I'd read and heard in interviews that part of Angelo Bruno's power came from his friendship/association with Carlo Gambino. The theory being the Genovese Family waited til Carlo Gambino's death to extend their influence in Philadelphia by giving their tacit approval to kill Bruno, I was wondering why Paul Castellano didn't offer Bruno that same friendship as CG1 did? Because for all the talk about Gotti breaking every rule in the book by killing Paul (and don't get me wrong, he did), Paul WAS a greedy bastard. So the short answer to your question is, because Big Paul cared about Big Paul.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787040
07/03/14 04:14 PM
07/03/14 04:14 PM
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Iceman999
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Well wasn't Bruno opposed to the casinos? I wonder if knowing there were more amenable people in Philly at the time they, figured that with Gambino dead maybe Castellano would be more open to a profitable regime change?
Last edited by Iceman999; 07/03/14 04:26 PM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787124
07/04/14 07:58 AM
07/04/14 07:58 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
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Well wasn't Bruno opposed to the casinos? I wonder if knowing there were more amenable people in Philly at the time they, figured that with Gambino dead maybe Castellano would be more open to a profitable regime change? That was a rumor that he was opposed to getting involved in the casinos, but it was bullshit. The mob back then was all about using unions to extort businesses and get contracts for their businesses. Why would Bruno not allow it? More likely he was killed because of his own greed and the greed of family members over drugs. He didn't let his own guys deal, but was getting street taxes from others outside the family who were dealing. The same thing happened with Castellano, allowing certain crews to deal and taking money from them, while being outraged over the Bergin Crew dealing.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: mulberry]
#787126
07/04/14 08:05 AM
07/04/14 08:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The same thing happened with Castellano, allowing certain crews to deal and taking money from them, while being outraged over the Bergin Crew dealing. Mock outrage at best. Paul was just looking for an excuse .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Yankees1951]
#787173
07/04/14 12:28 PM
07/04/14 12:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 728 LV
flamingokid123
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Bruno get a lot of praise for being such a great boss but in reality was he really? His guys were starving under him. The gambino's walked all over the guy selling dope and coke out every bar and pizza place in S. Jersey + Central Very True.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: flamingokid123]
#787250
07/04/14 08:17 PM
07/04/14 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 116
Yankees1951
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Bruno get a lot of praise for being such a great boss but in reality was he really? His guys were starving under him. The gambino's walked all over the guy selling dope and coke out every bar and pizza place in S. Jersey + Central Very True. Everyone going into those shops late night was just for charity you know to donate the leftover bread or to buy $1 a slice pizza about to get thrown out
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: pmac]
#787376
07/05/14 02:22 PM
07/05/14 02:22 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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you got to really wonder how close joe massino was to getting clipped. I read barney b told massino his brother and gotti were gonna get him. I don't know if it's Massino or Barney lying, but I don't believe that one. Why would Gotti kill Massino? He was trying to get the Bonannos back on the Commission because Massino was his buddy and he would be able to count on his vote. I think Barney was lying to Massino to turn him against Gotti. Maybe he was trying to get Massino to kill Gotti. The Genovese are well known for their duplicity and treachery.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Longshoreman]
#787392
07/05/14 03:36 PM
07/05/14 03:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Iceman999
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Gotti wanted to kill him so he could "take over" and run the Bonannos thru Sal Vitale. That maneuver has been done several times. Old Machivellian trick I thought Massino made Sal underboss in name only, giving him no real power? If this is so, then why would Gotti think the Bonannos would accept him as boss?
Last edited by Iceman999; 07/05/14 03:40 PM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787396
07/05/14 03:43 PM
07/05/14 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64 Miami, Fla via Englewood Cliff...
Longshoreman
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No idea, just what I've read always said he wanted Vitale to play puppet. Also that's why there called soldiers, they do what there told. And with Massino dead you think it matters what power he did of didn't give him? And not that I would know first hand, however the word "think" and Gotti are rarely used in the same sentence. He was at the top of the hill at that time as though it seemed. NYC was Gotti crazy at that time.
Last edited by Longshoreman; 07/05/14 03:46 PM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#787476
07/06/14 05:28 AM
07/06/14 05:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,068
JCrusher
Underboss
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I'd read and heard in interviews that part of Angelo Bruno's power came from his friendship/association with Carlo Gambino. The theory being the Genovese Family waited til Carlo Gambino's death to extend their influence in Philadelphia by giving their tacit approval to kill Bruno, I was wondering why Paul Castellano didn't offer Bruno that same friendship as CG1 did? Because for all the talk about Gotti breaking every rule in the book by killing Paul (and don't get me wrong, he did), Paul WAS a greedy bastard. So the short answer to your question is, because Big Paul cared about Big Paul. Well to be fair the biggest gripe against gotti was that he was a complete utter moron. Big paul despie his flaws was smarter and had enough sense to keep in the shadows. I think Big paul was only allied with bruno to make money but like someone else mentioned he probably benefited from bruno being whacked anyway
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787504
07/06/14 09:49 AM
07/06/14 09:49 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
Iceman999
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Well this is what I don't get, Bruno was allied to Gambino, who, in turn, had his proxy vote at Commission meetings. Now why would Castellano look the other way when Bruno was killed, especially when this would shift the balance of power in Philly towards the Genovese via their ties to Testa/Scarfo.
Also, doesn't the Bruno/Caponigro situation remind anyone of the Castellano/Gotti-Ruggerio one? I was thinking that perhaps Caponigro killed Bruno because Bruno may have been planning to kill him over his drug dealing.
Last edited by Iceman999; 07/06/14 09:50 AM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787505
07/06/14 09:52 AM
07/06/14 09:52 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64 Miami, Fla via Englewood Cliff...
Longshoreman
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Well this is what I don't get, Bruno was allied to Gambino, who, in turn, had his proxy vote at Commission meetings. Now why would Castellano look the other way when Bruno was killed, especialyy when this would shift the balance of power in Philly towards the Genovese via their ties to Testa/Scarfo.
Also, doesn't the Bruno/Caponigro situation remind anyone of the Castellano/Gotti-Ruggerio one? I was thinking that perhaps Caponigro killed Bruno because Bruno may have been planning to kill him over his drug dealing. If you remember, the Genovese guys never gave the order! They merely implied "do what you gotta do". With that said I'm sure Funzi didn't call Castellano and say "hey just a heads up your guy is going to get clipped", remember like all these guys they had something to gain. I'm sure both sides gained with Bruno gone.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Longshoreman]
#787512
07/06/14 09:58 AM
07/06/14 09:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
Iceman999
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Well this is what I don't get, Bruno was allied to Gambino, who, in turn, had his proxy vote at Commission meetings. Now why would Castellano look the other way when Bruno was killed, especialyy when this would shift the balance of power in Philly towards the Genovese via their ties to Testa/Scarfo.
Also, doesn't the Bruno/Caponigro situation remind anyone of the Castellano/Gotti-Ruggerio one? I was thinking that perhaps Caponigro killed Bruno because Bruno may have been planning to kill him over his drug dealing. If you remember, the Genovese guys never gave the order! They merely implied "do what you gotta do". With that said I'm sure Funzi didn't call Castellano and say "hey just a heads up your guy is going to get clipped", remember like all these guys they had something to gain. I'm sure both sides gained with Bruno gone. That's what I don't get. How would Castellano gain from getting his guy, Bruno, killed when it would cost him another vote on Commission matters?
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#787513
07/06/14 10:01 AM
07/06/14 10:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
Iceman999
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Also, doesn't the Bruno/Caponigro situation remind anyone of the Castellano/Gotti-Ruggerio one? I was thinking that perhaps Caponigro killed Bruno because Bruno may have been planning to kill him over his drug dealing.
To be honest, I never bought the "killing for dealing drugs" stories in the mafia. Didn't all bosses profit from drugs at least indirectly, by accepting some per cent of drug money among other sources of income? Maybe they sometimes sacrificed low level associates to look it like they were against drugs, but to kill somebody like Caponigro just because he brings in "dirty money" and for that reason alone doesn't seem realistic to me. Bruno doesn't seem such a "moralist" guy to me. True, but Gigante did put a lot a pressure on Castellano to kill Gotti and Ruggerio. And Gotti, at the time, was a captain, and not a low level guy. Plus he real close to Dellacroce as well.
Last edited by Iceman999; 07/06/14 10:01 AM.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Longshoreman]
#787518
07/06/14 10:04 AM
07/06/14 10:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
Iceman999
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I'm sure he didn't care much about the vote, he was at the top then. Those votes were for climbing the ladder and he was already at the top with plenty willing to kiss his ass. I'm sure he picked up different rackets. "Crumbs" Maybe. But Gambino was an even stronger boss and he didn't turn his nose at Bruno's vote.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787519
07/06/14 10:06 AM
07/06/14 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64 Miami, Fla via Englewood Cliff...
Longshoreman
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I'm sure he didn't care much about the vote, he was at the top then. Those votes were for climbing the ladder and he was already at the top with plenty willing to kiss his ass. I'm sure he picked up different rackets. "Crumbs" Maybe. But Gambino was an even stronger boss and he didn't turn his nose at Bruno's vote. That's probably why he died in his bed watching the Yankees instead of on the street with a bunch oh holes in him. Guys forget where they came from and how they got there.
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Re: Why Didn't Big Paul Protect Bruno?
[Re: Iceman999]
#787520
07/06/14 10:28 AM
07/06/14 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 116
Yankees1951
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Well this is what I don't get, Bruno was allied to Gambino, who, in turn, had his proxy vote at Commission meetings. Now why would Castellano look the other way when Bruno was killed, especialyy when this would shift the balance of power in Philly towards the Genovese via their ties to Testa/Scarfo.
Also, doesn't the Bruno/Caponigro situation remind anyone of the Castellano/Gotti-Ruggerio one? I was thinking that perhaps Caponigro killed Bruno because Bruno may have been planning to kill him over his drug dealing. If you remember, the Genovese guys never gave the order! They merely implied "do what you gotta do". With that said I'm sure Funzi didn't call Castellano and say "hey just a heads up your guy is going to get clipped", remember like all these guys they had something to gain. I'm sure both sides gained with Bruno gone. That's what I don't get. How would Castellano gain from getting his guy, Bruno, killed when it would cost him another vote on Commission matters? Because in the grand scheme of things Bruno was losing grip on his family from everyone whispering in each others ear. Crazy Phil said in his book that the Docile Don was a partner with John Martarano or took his drugs proceeds. Johns biggest money maker was the meth. The gambino's were literally 10 minutes over the bridge with pure heroin. Plus he held out on A.C. Resorts shares,after publicly stating or testifying he didn't want anything to do with A.C. I'm surprised he wasn't killed right after Carlo died. Like I said early everyone was starving under this guy. The Chicken Man wanted to create a 2nd family that could sell drugs. If they had merged with the Riccobene's things might be a lot different today,
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