http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dropping-out-is-college-worth-the-cost/

What do people think about this? As a guy who never went to college and who ended up doing okay financially through my own heating company, I tend to agree. With college prices skyrocketing, and unemployment very high, I don't think its worth it anymore.
With a kid 2 years away from college, I am not sure how I feel about sending him off into the world without a degree.

What does everyone think? Do you need a degree to make a living these days?

My wife and I put one daughter through the University of Miami, one daughter through Penn State, and our youngest (our son) just finished up his freshman year at Stony Brook. It's very gratifying, but it's not about us. It's about the kids, and they have to want it. In our case our kids wanted it for themselves as much as we wanted it for them, and we're very grateful for that.

That being said, college isn't for everyone. And it's no guarantee, especially today. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's not worth it anymore. If you can afford it, and the kid WANTS to go, then I'd send him if I were you .

Pizza. The gratification you feel reminds me of my parents. They were very happy to see my siblings go to college as they never got that opportunity. But I feel that times have changed, and a college degree just is not what is used to be.

I have to really think about college just like i would anything else im putting money into, as an investment. The goal and purpose of a degree is to get a job and make a living. Knowledge without a living means nothing. If you got knowledge but no living then your just the smartest most sarcastic jackass at the bar.

I think trade school is the answer for a lot of kids. Not many are doing it.

I have three kids who went to college. None of them are doing what they went to college to learn.

My youngest did not want any part of school. Including HS I got him to get his GED. I wanted to send him to trade school Apex tech everbheardbof them? A waste of 8 thousand dollars never went.

He became a free mason knew somebody that was one. I though he could network himself a job with someone in it. He stopped going to their meetings as well.

During that time he studied Brazilian Jujitsu in the Henzo Gracie school in Manhattan. He loved it good teacher good students good people.

Got his Black Belt and began teacher in the school. Then started to teach Vitor Ribero's school. Then in marcelo Garcia's school.

Now he is pretty happy doing something he loves.

IF

I think that's a pretty limited viewpoint.Purpose of higher learning is to become educated and expand your job, career, and entrepreneurial options.
You are right that we all have to make a living and you don't want your kids taking up majors like "16th century european dictators under 6 feet tall" BUT...don't let the fact that you did well for yourself without a degree cloud your thinking.

My father wouldn't have swallowed so much shit in his life were it not for his desire for all of his children to get degrees and have more options than he did.

Gets,

I think your response fundamentally ignores the problems with the educational system as it relates to middle class kids seeking upward mobility. College is a business, an expensive, very profitable business where professors who make 400k a year spew rhetoric about income inequality. That would all be good and dandy if college was still how it was 20 years, when i had the opportunity to go: cheaper and worthwhile.

Anyone who blindly recommends college fundamentally does not understand the problems with a degree to today. First, extremely expensive, with increasing tuition costs at about 5x inflation. Second, half graduates don't get jobs, and who knows how many of those jobs are micky d's and starbucks. Finally, serious debt, I am talking shylock bust out your business debt. Six figures.

Two words: Trade School.

Trade school, much like college, isn't for everyone. We can't live in a world without doctors and lawyers any more than we can live in a world without electricians and plumbers. There has to be a balance. It's a very individual decision .

I paid 150 thousand for my daughters college education. You know the communist . Graduated with honors from Columbia University.

She got an award for German culture and language from the German consulate. We are not German. I don't even drink beer.

She had a chance to spend a semester in Berlin.Fell in love with the place. She graduated in 2002. With in weeks if her graduation she moved to Germany,

When she went looking for a job there here degree with honors from Columbia meant shit there?

They asked her want skills do you have what trade do you have.

She was not going to come home so I was sending her 4000 thousand Euros a month DI she could survive till she got a jobs.

She was a a guide for predominately american tourists. She taught little German children English.at a university she did translation work from German to English.

The unemployment rate in Germany at that time is what it really is here now about 15 percent.

If a non Germany was hired by a Germany company. They had to send the Germany government why a German could not do that job.

We should do that here in the USA but we don't.

She was book smart she did manage to get a job in a German pharamadtical company. Now she opens up offices for them all over the world. There is one here in NJ.

On trade school I told you I wanted to send my son to one Apex tech. 2 year course was 12 thousand. A lot cheaper then college. Private companies work with them to hire the graduates. At that time there was not many students loand you could get for those schools.

It's mostly for colleges.

In the first month they teach you appliance repair, have any idea what it costs when someone comes over to fix your washing machine or refrederator.

Good thing about it is you can work anywhere and make money.

IF,

Anybody who blindly recommends college, or anything else is not doing anybody any favors. But I think we are in agreement over higher education leading to more options. Trade school, college, military training, apprenticeships, to me all fall under the same boat. Training/education leading to degree/certification/license which gives you more options.

As far as traditional higher education, there will always be concentrations/majors that are more "valuable" than others in the market place. Always going to be factors/trends that affect this . My joke about the obscure major "short european dictators" was meant to highlight just that.


Speaking of options...people should explore all their options when it comes to the high cost of college....rotc, attending a community college, attending a cc and then transferring to four year school, working and going to school part time. From what you're telling me, kids of middle class backgrounds are just gonna have to adapt the way kid from poor backgrounds have had to to finance their educations.

I understood what you meant by short european dictators. And I believe that goes for any major aside from the math and sciences. If i was gonna pay for college, there are bout 5 majors I would allow. If he wants to study social work, he can finance his education himself. But i digress.

Another problem i have with college and it seems all education these days is that most schools seem to be liberal indoctrination factories. My kid spent one year at public high school he came back talking about columbus was a slave trader. He's in catholic school now.

I hear business schools are less heavy on the liberal indoctrination though.

First of all, please introduce me to the college professors making $400k a year. Professors are NOT traditionally well paid at all. After my husband got his Masters, the university offered him a job teaching part time. Believe me, it doesn't pay well.

That said, I agree that college is not for everyone BUT it shouldn't ruled out because it's expensive. It's our duty as parents to guide our children to become self-sufficient adults. Whether that's a trade or a college education, it's what best suits their personality, brains and temperament.

I'm just going to leave this here:

http://nypost.com/2014/05/11/fewer-college-grads-will-have-jobs-lined-up-this-year/

And mind you, this is after 4-5 years of opportunity cost, plus several hundreds dollars in COA.

It is very common on law faculties to see an average range between 150k-300k, with deans and higher end faculty at or near 400k.

So your husband and his masters degree got a low paying part time teaching job at a college. I guess that means you have proved professors dont make anything.

My first cousin got his masters in marketing and works at an internet marketing company for 40k a year. He has got about 200k in student debt.

I would rather my kid figure out a way to make money off college than attend to be honest. The other day he was telling me about how all the kids spend all their student loan money at eating spots, bars etc. I would rather go in with him on something like that by a college campus then send him to one.

I didn't say he got a low paying job. I said he was offered one, but he kept his day job, which he wouldn't have if he wasn't educated.

If your cousin has that much debt, then he should have considered attending a public college instead of such an expensive one. It's all about choices.

Our sons and daughters need encouragement to follow their talents. Be it a trade, be it a college diploma or further, whatever it is, they need to know that we have their backs. That's the only thing that matters.

The way the job market is right now. Contrary what our Presidents people keep telling us now hoping that we believe it.

You have to Keep pushing yourself if not. You will be let go for others who are standing in line to work, and who will work harder and for less money then you.

Even trade schools can be a waste. Like in my industry (utility construction, ie: powerlines) these new "line schools" have opened up all over the U.S. since supposedly more than 50% of the current linemen plan on retiring over the next 10-15 years. They charge kids up to 10 grand to get a worthless diploma from them. The reason I call it worthless? The schools don't offer help with employment, then when they are accepted by local utilities they STILL have to go through a 4 years apprenticeship that we all went through years ago to get where we are now to be a Journeyman Lineman. So they spend all that money to go to a 2 year school that basically only teaches them to become a grunt in our world and learn how to climb. I got paid ON THE JOB to learn, they don't tell those kids that appreniceships through the IBEW hall will get them work while they learn. They all think they have to go to school to learn this trade and blow through their education money the parents saved up when they could save it, tour the country and get paid for it!

I never went to college, make $38 an hour and get OT at time and a half to top it off. Not bad for the South!

So you spend a lot of time under power lines, Dix?

I kinda figured .

I would tell my kids that college is only worth it if it's certain majors. And even then it also depends on the job market at the time. Many majors are just a waste of money nowadays, at least in terms of the earning power you'll get afterward.

My daughter the communist got scholarship offers from many colleges.

But she wanted to go to Columbia University there medical engineering school.We made too much to get financial aid from them. Then she changes to the liberal arts school. Gets a lot of bull shit awards German language and culture. Swedish language and cultural. So she went to school there for a semester. Fucking useless for making money. She did graduate in 4 years with honors.

Loved Germany left right after her graduation in 2002. Incidently Sweden was useless lived in a villa. All the people in Sweden speak English. The highlight was when a neighbor came back home with the Stanley cup. Team wins it each player takes ut home for a while. You know what that shit head did when he got it home. He pissed in the Stanley cup nice right?

Back to the point of the post. What college did do for her. She finally got a job for a company in German. Evidently the cream rises to the top in Germant like here. She got a great job world traveler opens up places all over the world. Makes a lot of money. Lives in a penthouse apartment in Berlin over looking the canal. She has a boat that she takes to work except when the canal freezes. She is a communist that loves money.

If she loves to make money she is a capitalist, not a commie. From mechanical engineering to the liberal arts. My friend, i was you I would have told her to pay for that herself.

@dixie: no offense, but being a union worker who makes money is not impressive. Unions are legalized extortion. I deal with them on a monthly basis. Guys who make 38 an hour who if they worked for me would be making 15.

Nope, spend a lot of time ON them

Gloving, barehanding 230,000 volts you name it I've done it.

That's not the point. The point is people don't want to get out and WORK these days. The IBEW does more than just give me a good paycheck, they also make sure companies are required to pay me well on the road and not work me more than I should when I have my life in my hands. Just because you might work with the Teamsters who are crooks doesn't mean others are the same way.

So you telling me I should really go out and work for a measly $15 an hour with one of the most dangerous jobs in the world? Are you that dumb? I wouldn't step out of my door for that and walk to my truck, I'm a professional and they will pay me for such work. If they want shit work then they can hire for $15 an hour and they'll get $15 an hour type of work too. I earned my way up and wasn't given shit by the union or anyone else. My point is I make 2x what the average worker makes here in this state and when I travel up North I make their scale which is much higher. That is what happens when you work hard and learn what you are supposed to and work safe. Meanwhile kids are working at McDonald's whining that they don't make enough to flip fucking meat all day. Get the point now? Not enough people push WORK for a living, too many think they can go to college, get smart, then work in a cubicle making 100k a year right off the bat.

Like PB said we need the balance in this country, we have too many WANTS and not enough DRIVE. People spend more time bitching and saying they will not do a certain job and our economy is suffering for it. Meanwhile the government is telling and showing everyone how to live for free off of them and people are eating that shit up. Get out, start at the bottom, and make something of yourself instead of mooching off of everyone on your way to the top. The only way we are getting out of this rough economy is putting in work like our parents and Grandparents did, working your ass off.

Dixie, I represented PA Power and Light in their workers' compensation cases, and I can attest that you have one of the most physically demanding and high-risk jobs out there. It's not just the exposure to nasty elements and high voltage or heights, but there are many injuries from the repetitive use of hand tools to cut lines while wearing the insulated gloves. I was surprised when I first discovered how much force is needed just to use the hand cutters.

Also, the hours are necessarily difficult, and when you're called in at 2 am, you have to report or risk losing your job. And linemen I know also have to report to jobs out-of-state after ice storms/hurricanes/other disasters cause widespread havoc.

There's no doubt that you earn every dollar you get.

Yep klydon it's rough for sure on the family and life in general. Pays well but the family pays too. As for the rest we consider it part of the job. I've been lucky enough to see most of the U.S. because of this job.

I still remember when I started I thought "WTF did I get myself into?" but there was no way I was going to quit. Wasn't raised that way. Then I got to where it was in my blood and from there the rest is history. Most of the other workers seem to be the same way or are 2nd and 3rd generation linemen. Most of it is as safe as you make it though except for your body breaking down, that just comes from doing everything like you mentioned.

You listen to some people on storm they think we just sit in the truck and do nothing or sit on union breaks all day.....LMAO

Hey, the Teamsters were very good to me and my family, Dix .

See what happens when you get baited into a pissing match on these boards?

we need drug dealers so they can fight the war on drugs (jail is a business)

we need clucks to go to rehab centers (there's money in it somehow)

etc, etc.

Yep and note taken Shouldn't have said it period.

Just hate it when folks dog unions and have no idea how great and how much they protect some of us in this world.

I hear enough of it here in the South where unions are looked down on big time. My wife works at an automaker building cars and makes 3 times as less as those did and still do in Michigan. That's why most are coming South now. They fill up those places with temp agencies and folks are working like slaves at shit pay with no benefits. And people wonder why we need unions???

Dixie: I meant no respect.

Pizza: Wasn't bating anyone into an argument.

I deal with unions all the time, and by and large, they are paid higiher wages than the market dictates, and the majority of the time it is not for life threatening work. If you have a life threatening job, I commend you. I should have not made a broad sweeping statement.

The reality is that in my business, unions seek to do whatever they can to push guys like me out. It doesn't work however, because at least for smaller jobs (like the ones i handle), clients don't want to overpay for a job that can be done well for less money.