This topic is likely to be discussed before but I couldnt find it on the forum.

Is it true Luciano didn't get respect from the mafioso when he was exiled back to Italy? We probably all know the story about him getting slapped in public, I also read that the local boss would shake him down and would get the police to put heat on him. Does a boss and founder of the commission getting treated so badly give an indication of what the Camorra and Cosa Nostra truly think about the American mafia?

Supposedly Luciano was given an opportunity to invest in a caramel factory in Sicily by some local Mafioso. According to the story,there was never any profit from his venture,and basically,he was scammed out of his money,and no repercussions ever materialized.

I think that Lucky was close connected with the old Sicilian bosses even before the deportation.So when he went to Italy,he was well recognized and he had a warm welcome into the heroin biz.Dont get me wrong he might had some problems with other bosses but I don't think that he was harassed that much.The biggest problem for Lucky,while in Italy,was the government and later his old pals from the states.They wanted him out of the durg biz or there was another rumour that he wanted a bigger cut.

some clarifications, Lucky Luciano was slapped in the racecourse of Agnano by Pasquale Simonetti, said Pascalone of Nola, who controlled the prices of fruit and vegetable market and was a highly respected camorrista, when he opened the candy factory with Don Calogero Vizzini, were in fact coverage, since in some sweets was hiding heroin, according to legend Lucky Luciano died at the airport of Capodichino where he was to meet with a movie producer to make a movie from his autobiography was killed for this, masking everything with a heart attack, until then no one had challenged his for his role in the international heroin trafficking.

Yes Lucky had a candy factory(little sweets for weddings)but I don't think it was a front for drugs....dunno maybe im worng...because I remember a story about his first big shipment with sweets got ruined by the local police and they found nothing and after it the candy biz was over for him.There was another story,told by this old Italian guy that used to work with Lucky,about some fake dolls auction.Most of the dolls were stuffed with heroin.

Is the Luciano book any good?

No respect in the homeland where is this from.

There are several. Gosch/Hammer, Tim Newark, and Sid Feder wrote 3 biographies.

The most realistic book of them all is the Tim Newark book BUT i gotta quote Jimmy_Two_Times(older poster on this forum) and that is:"... not sure of his "credibility" but he does go out of his way to tear down the Luciano myth...i think perhaps he does that because it provides an alternative to established and accepted belief that he was instrumental in bringing organized crime into the 20th century. That said, I disagree with his premise completely."....and thats my opinion also.Looks like Lucky remains still the most mysterious gangster of them all.Some say hes overrated,some say that he's story is all true.....and thats the way its goin to continue...we will never know the real truth

Tim Newark lost a little credibility with me when he wrote that Genovese was going to be crowned boss of bosses at Apalachin.

But he had interesting info about Lucky's possible role in the death of Thelma Todd. And Newark wrote about how Lucky tried to have Frank Nitti whacked for not vacating the narcotics market in Hollywood. He actually had gunmen shoot at Nitti when leaving a sit down with Luciano. If true, Lucky took his drug dealing very seriously.

I don't believe that for a minute...Not calling the posters here liars, but I don't believe the sources wherever they read that..Someone of Luciano's stature cannot let somebody just smack him in the face and rip him off on deals and not retaliate...He would lose all the respect that he had..Like the one poster rightly pointed out...He died the unchallenged king of heroin distribution from Italy...They don't allow just anybody to control that !!

I stand by what TooDoped says...

As far as being smacked in the face.....from what I have read, Luciano retaliated. The guy showed up dead shortly afterward.

As far as Luciano being ripped off, I believe some are referring to a story told in The Last Testament- but I haven't seen it reported elsewhere. I'm not sure if this is a true story (unlikely), something made up by Lucky, or something created by Gosch's imagination. Lucky invested in a small candy business as a silent partner. The guys running the company were his cousin, Momo Salemi (Lucky's cousin from Lercara Freddi), and Pasquale Enemi. When profits weren't coming in, he sent a different cousin to investigate the factory. Turns out his business partners took the profits and spent it on themselves. And Lucky didn't retaliate. He had his cousin fix up the candy factory and sell it, causing Lucky to lose around $40k on the venture.

Okay, thanks Little Man...Makes alot more sense !!!

I think Lucky's role in American crime, post-deportation is historically overstated and that Newark isn't too far off the mark. Lucky tried one time to stick his hand back in the pot in Cuba and was run out of the country. He really couldn't do anything in Italy without the police and even American agents watching his every move.

I certainly don't discount the possibility that he had a hand in drug smuggling but I don't think he acted in much more than a liaison-type role between the Americans and the Sicilians. He simply had too many eyes watching him. Once Costello was shot, he probably lost what little influence he still retained in the States.

I'm 50-50 with that...It was the G that stopped Luciano in cuba, not cosa nostra, which showed he had so much power and respect, that leaders of the country would go cow tow to him in another country...But i agree with you, It seems when Genovese took on Costello, that was a sign that he wasn't the power in NYC anymore !!!

Lucky lost a lot of friends/allies in the fifties, culminating in Costello, whose power had already been rapidly drained by his poor showing in the Kefauver hearings and his subsequent troubles with the IRS, not to mention Genovese breathing down his back for control of the family. Once Adonis was deported and Moretti and Anastasia were killed, Costello and Luciano lost strong allies and a lot of power. Lansky also saw that the writing was on the wall but was smart enough not to get too involved with the Italians so he basically took a backseat for the rest of his criminal career, which also hurt Luciano as he was probably his biggest ally and he still had pull within Vegas and the Jews like Moe Dalitz, Doc Stacher, etc., who had shares in the casinos and were skimming off the top too.

And that's probably all true snakes..but that doesn't mean they would ignore their boss and let guys in italy smack him around in public....that's just not feasible !!

joe Adonis btw, is probably the most underrated power in US history !!!


you seem pretty knowledgable !!

I considered Lucky the boss of the Luciano/Genovese family while he was in jail, and even after he was deported. When Costello retired and Genovese took over the reigns of the family, that is when Lucky lost his influence. The LToLL said that he was getting around $25k/month. I assumed that this included the boss's cut of crime revenue.

And Luciano was very strong in Havana, imo. After all, he called the meeting and top mobsters came. And it was on the turf secured by his right hand man, Lansky. As per TLToLL, attendees brought envelopes for Charlie, which he parlayed into points into a casino Lansky was building in Havana. Was that fabricated BS, or did Charlie really receive envelopes in Havana?

There are fbi reports sayin that Frank Sinatra also brought money to Luciano in Havana.Was that mob money or something else,i dont know...

Heres an fbi report from anonymous FBI agent that visited Lucky on board the Laura Keene before leaving the docks.Its showing the respect other gangsters had for Luciano:

“Upon my arrival there, I saw a gang or mob of 60 to 80 men and about 20 to 30 cars. I have no idea to their identity or their purpose for being on hand.When the ship left the pier at 8:50 a.m., a launch followed the ship for three miles."

The agent guessed it was members of the press trying to get one final shot of Luciano. The agent left the ship at 2:00 p.m. when he caught a ride on a fishing ship returning to the Brooklyn docks.

Maybe the stories about Lucky getting envelops in Havana are true...who knows

During the time when Lucky was deported and Costello was considered the official boss of the family....was Lucky still receiving an overall cut of the family's profits, like a don?

According to Tim Newark's biography, Joe Biondo was the go between with the family and Luciano. He brought Luciano his slice of the profits and discussed mob related matters with him. Costello was paying Luciano money, one payment reached $70k. And during this time, Luciano was receiving trans Atlantic phone calls from Costello, Adonis, and Mangano. I believe that Lucky was recognized as the head of the family at the Havana meeting.

Is it possible that until 1957, Luciano was still at the top of the crime family in a low key fashion, similar to Accardo/Ricca in Chicago?

No, I don't believe that, but I do believe that he still had enough investments in America to warrant some type of cut from the States. As I've stated a few times in this thread already, that source of income began to dry up as Lucky's allies lost power in the fifties.

Costello became, for all intents and purposes, the full-time boss of the family once Lucky was booted from Cuba.

It's interesting that there's still so much mystery about luciano given that he was so high profile in his day.

I've always found it interesting how much respect Bonnano seemed to have for luciano. In Man of Honor Bonnano does not shy away from taking shots at his old business associates and lucky is the only one outside of his allies that joe talks about in a way that makes it seem as though he respects him.

Joe did greatly benefit from lucky doing what he did even if it was because lucky killed his mentor maranzano, but while joe doesn't talk much about lucky, he never says anything bad about him which is more than he can say for a lot of other guys in that book.
Joe doesn't go out of his way to compliment the man, but if you read between the lines in how he talks about everybody and how he talks about luciano, there's clearly a respect there

I'll admit that at one point, I thought that Bonanno hated Luciano.

As per the War of the Godfathers, Bonanno funneled damaging information about Luciano to Dewey, which helped convict him. Bonanno even schooled the prostitutes how to lie on the stand. With Luciano out of the way, Bonanno would be able to be recognized as the most powerful don.

Afterward I found out The War of the Godfathers was a fictional book and I felt like an idiot for believing it was a true story.

My opinion is that Luciano had to get respect in Italy, for three reasons.

One was heroin, and lots of it. Supposedly Lucky was a key player.

Two was he was said to have inspired the formation of the Italian Commission, or the Cupola, just as he formed the Commission in the States by whacking the top Boss and then decreeing that neither he, and no one else, would be a Boss of Bosses.

Three was that Italian talk in the street described Luciano was Capo di Tutti Capi. So to everyday folk, Lucky was the Godfather of Godfathers. In a way I agree, since by aligning yourself with Luciano at that time, you as a Boss received the umbrella of protection from the majority and the majority leader.

the Thelma todd story is Luciano murdering a movie star, for little or no reason. there is no honor in that. my opinion of Luciano went south when I learned of that murder. what happened to "we only kill our own"

The last testament of lucky Luciano was a great read and very interesting. How much of it is true is definetly up for debate. He does ridicule Vito a lot In the book think he keeps referring to him as that little pain in the ass, who's main business concern was dope dealing

"The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano" was a fraud. It has been thoroughly investigated and debunked. The FBI came to that conclusion, then New York Times reporter Nicholas Gage, and many others. The most thorough examination was in Informer magazine:

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/april-issue-of-informer-journal-available-now

http://www.scribd.com/doc/90408801/2012-02-Informer-Apr-2012

And there's absolutely no evidence to connect Luciano to Thelma Todd in any way. None. I have contemporary newspaper accounts and her inquest record and his name never came up once. That was something that was made up many years later in the book "Hot Toddy."

faithful 1 ive read the "the last testament" there are some things in the book that I think ring true. the killing of abe reles for one. the story Luciano gives in the book is he approached Costello about the situation and, Costello said " the cops will have to do it" Luciano agreed, he then said Costello gave capt bals 50,000 dollars and the cops threw him out the window. I believe that to be credible, also luciano relates to the author that he beat up vito Genovese in cuba in 1947. the new book "Cuban nocturne" mentions that Luciano had a fight with vito in cuba about that time.