Are these the best action movies from the 1980s, nevermind possibly all time?

You know its strange how the 80s action films are popularily remembered as flag-waving vehicles for bodybuilders with drug-enhanced physiques (with acting chops optional) yet you look at these two classics, they're the reverse and share many similarities. Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones and John McClaine are everyman American Joes with regular mundane jobs (archaeology professor or NYPD cop) who are thrust upon incredible intense situations where they have to combat evil ruthless Germans and survive insane, dire obstacles by their wits and being tough sons of bitches. Unlike some of those stereotypical 80s action films, they both take a good beating by the credits. (Both in fact get shot in the shoulder, both scenes which still make me wince no matter how many times I've seen these pictures.) Both were also critical, box-office hits which spawned many sequels including the most recent entries which the Internet wished never existed. Both characters also have estranged lovers that they ultimately hook back up at the end.

So which is the better movie? I've gone back and forth with each other, usually each time I catch either on TV or rotation (DIE HARD is a Christmas ritual at my household) but some thoughts I've made over the years:

VILLAIN: Paul Freeman is great as Belloq, the evil mirror version of Indiana Jones who as the Vichy France avatar has no qualms with working for the fucking Nazis. His calling Indy's bluff to bazooka up the Ark is a classic bad guy moment. But I think Alan Rickman tops him because he's so much more fun. When movie terrorists were ideological whackos (which I guess we're back to now), Hans Gruber was a breath of fresh air because he dressed good and just wanted the money. All things he cooked up a brilliant bad guy plan that used mindless American national security protocol to his favor. When his gang breaks into the vault, the movie allows you to enjoy their victory with them. He's also smug and confident that he would prevail until he gets dropped off a skyscraper because until that moment, he did almost win and deservedly so.

MOST PAINFUL MOMENT: Shoulder shots aside, I'm afraid Indy can't top McClaine having to walk through broken glass, but he does come close with being dragged behind a truck on an unpaved road.

MOST ABSURD MOMENT: Indy smuggles himself into that Nazi sub base by hanging onto the peroscope. Henchman Karl survives getting hanged (i.e. broken neck) and still able to aim a gun. I call this a Draw.

MOST BADASS MOMENT: Running away from a rolling bolder or jumping off a rooftop as it explodes? Draw.

MOST INGENIUS MOMENT: Indy and Marion are trapped in that tomb, no escape and snakes everybody. How does he get out? Pure joy. But Bruce Willis outsmarting Gruber with simply two bullets and gift wrap tape? Pure joy too but also shockingly simple that it's just brilliant and clever (and funny) scriptwriting.

BEST DEATH: Getting dropped off a skyscraper rocks, as does one of Gruber's henchmen giving fateful advise to McClaine. But nothing beats faces melting and eyeballs being smashed by lightning bolts! Also I always remember that Nazi trooper who gets run over by the truck, and if you look at the placement of truck and his body, that truck ran over the poor bastard's balls.

FEMALE LEAD: Bonnie Bedelia is your damsel in distress, but has a good New York sarcastic sense of humor (like her character's estranged husband) but a D.I.D. none the less. Karen Allen on the other hand...is also a D.I.D., but a scrappy tomboy. Plus her entrance is classic.

DIRECTOR: John McTiernan for a brief run (from PREDATOR to HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER) was a splendid action-thriller filmmaker and I'm a fan of his DIE HARD sequel, but otherwise bleh. Steven Spielberg is one of the greatest directors ever. Not even close.

MUSIC: Michael Kamen did some underrated cues, even though most of DIE HARD's most memorable moments came from recycling composers dead for centuries. Besides, John Williams. RAIDERS wins again!

BUDDIES: In retrospect especially after the last decade, I admire that John Rhys-Davies' Sallah was that rare Arab character in these sort of popcorn movies played with humanity, competentcy, bravery, intelligence, and (without needing exposition) you just know he and Indy are long time best buds. But I pick Al because imagine his story, which would've made a decent from his angle: Former street cop demoted to desk job after unfortunately shooting a kid, he's accepted his crappy gig. On his way home he makes a Twinkie run, which then gets him ultimately involved with a major terorrist incident. He strikes a friendship with McClaine, despite McClaine throwing a dead terrorist's body at his car. Plus at the end, Al saves the day!

HUMOR: Spielberg has a great sense of humor in RAIDERS, but c'mon DIE HARD and its million one-liners used by Willis and the cast. ("The Quarterback IS toast!")

ENDING: I like the tying up of everything in DIE HARD: Hero and wife reunite, hero meets Al face to face, wife punches out the reporter, Argyle and his limo escape. Al gets his hero moment. Let it Snow, Let it Snow...But RAIDERS' dialogue-free ending is so simple and much more interesting and memorable. (Plus endlessly spoofed.)

And we're still at a tie! Damn.

Ah, there’s no tie for me. I loved Die Hard and Willis in it, but Raiders will always be my top action movie. It is a good argument, but the real tragedy is the sequels ….

If you’ve ever seen that Indiana Jones-South Park bit about the raping of our old pal Indy…sigh. So true, so true.

For me it has to be Die Hard..

For me it's Die Hard, which is one of my all-time favorite movies. The first one being the best of course. I saw them all except for this latest one. Every time Die Hard is on (the original), I can't resist watching some of it. Just a really really good movie IMHO.


Never been an Indiana Jones fan. Only saw one or two of the series (the first one at least). Ok, but not my cup of tea.

TIS

Easily Die Hard for me but my favourite action movie is either Terminator 2 or Predator. Like TIS i'm not a big fan of the Indiana Jones series i'm also one of the few people who prefer Temple of Doom to Raiders.

Love them both, hard to seperate them!!

I don't feel that these films are very similar for comparison. Yes they are both from the action genre. But maybe it's the uniqueness of Raiders and the fact that it's a 1930s era setting?

Let me be clear - this is not a criticism of Die Hard, which I do like. However, I find Die Hard more similar to other action movies such as Terminator 2, Lethal Weapon, the Matrix, or the Bourne franchise and other shoot-em-up action films of the 80s and 90s. I would say that Die Hard is the best of these bunch, but without the originality of Raiders. I would actually compare Raiders more to the Star Wars trilogy than to Die Hard.