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Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily #714610
05/08/13 01:37 PM
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Juan Ramon Fernandez, a high-level Montreal Mafia associate who was deported from Canada for the third time last year, has resurfaced once more.

For background to this thread I've started, see johnnyboysala's thread at http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714558#Post714558. Fernandez, a one-time driver for Frank Cotroni Sr. and Vito Rizzuto who had been based in Ontario for many years, deserves his own thread.

Vincent Larouche of La Presse appears to be relying on information in Italian-language articles published in the last 24 hours about an operation that targeted Fernandez, among others -- recent information shows 21 people have already been arrested; Fernandez has not.

Link: http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...zzuto-cible.php

Google translation:

Mafia roundup in Sicily: a former associate of Rizzuto targeted

Vincent Larouche
La Presse
Published on 08 May 2013 at 12:48 | Updated at 12:48

Italian police have launched a major operation targeting mafia including a former close Vito Rizzuto who have joined several leaders of the Cosa Nostra in Sicily to develop drug trafficking "axis Palermo-Montreal" after his expulsion from Canada the last year.

According to the daily reports La Repubblica this morning, the Italian Carabinieri arrested 21 people in this operation.

Juan Ramon Fernandez, former Canadian gangster who went to school with Vito Rizzuto before being expelled from the country, however, have escaped the raid. It is now on the run, with another Canadian Mafia who came to visit him in Sicily in recent weeks.

Fernandez, who is of Spanish origin, was described in Canadian courts in the early 2000s as one of those who watched the interests of the godfather Vito Rizzuto Montreal to Toronto.

In 2004, he was sentenced to 12 years in prison for crimes connected to the Mafia, including a plot to assassinate a bar owner who owed money to the Rizzuto clan. He also admitted his involvement in a conspiracy to traffic in 1000 kilos of cocaine with the Mafia and the Hells Angels in Quebec.

The type of 57 years was deported from Canada since his release from prison in April 2012. According to La Repubblica , he would then installed Bagheria, a Sicilian town near Palermo. Officially, he was a martial arts instructor. "In fact, he organized new business on the Palermo-Montreal axis, especially drug cases," the newspaper said, citing in particular a commander of the Carabinieri in his article.

The authorities reportedly discovered that Fernandez was linked with a new group of leaders of the Cosa Nostra in this region, once the stronghold of the "capo of all capos", Bernardo Provenzano.

The newspaper also reports that it is the Canadian police have alerted the Carabinieri on the presence of Fernandez in Sicily.

- In collaboration with Mathieu Perreault

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714813
05/09/13 10:54 AM
05/09/13 10:54 AM
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Link: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/08/...a-drug-network/

Excerpts:

Rizzuto’s former right-hand man allegedly running Italy-to-Canada drug network from Sicily after deportation
Adrian Humphreys
National Post
13/05/08 | Last Updated: 13/05/09 10:19 AM ET

Juan Ramon Fernandez seems at ease wherever he goes, whether sipping espresso in a café in Toronto, serving hard time in prison, representing Mafia bosses in Montreal or threatening a drug baron who owes him money.

Even, it is now alleged, when negotiating with senior mafiosi in Sicily, the birthplace of the Mafia.

As Italian police swooped in on a mob-run drug cartel in Bagheria, a Mafia stronghold outside Sicily’s capital of Palermo, Wednesday, among their main targets was Mr. Fernandez, who has been deported from Canada three times.

Apparently escaping the dragnet, Mr. Fernandez was named as a lynchpin of a Sicily-to-Canada drug network and dubbed “Cosa Nostra’s Canadian ambassador.”

In fact, an Italian prosecutor told the National Post of Mr. Fernandez: “He was taking over in the Cosa Nostra family of Bagheria due to his tight links with the boss, Sergio Flamia.”

[snip]

After his deportation from Canada last year at the completion of a prison sentence, Mr. Fernandez disappeared until police in Canada learned he was living in Bagheria, where he ran a martial arts gym. Always a fitness buff and a black belt in karate, it was a natural way for him to rebuild.

Now 56, Mr. Fernandez seems to have lost none of his dynamic persona.

He fit in there, according to a report in La Repubblica, a newspaper in Italy, like a native.

He would go for long walks around town in designer clothes and meet many people who would pay him respect, the paper said.

Italian police secretly followed him for months, tracking him as he met leading figures in Sicily’s Mafia, including the heads of several Mafia clans. His ties to Mr. Rizzuto, who authorities allege maintains an organization in Italy, would likely aid his introduction.

Police moved against the organization early Wednesday, arresting 21 men in what it called a pact between Palermo and Canada. Nine others remain fugitives.

Mr. Fernandez was one of those not found. Fleeing with him, according to reports, was another Canadian who had come to stay with him.

[snip]

He is also accused of planning to import cocaine directly to Sicily from South America.

Authorities allege the men were part of a reorganization of Mafia clans in response to the previous arrests of other mobsters. Authorities implicated the Rizzuto organization in Montreal as a part of the scheme.

[snip]

Mr. Fernandez was a senior envoy of Montreal’s Rizzuto organization, even though he is Spanish rather than Italian and his lineage prevented him from being an inducted member of the Mafia.

“He was sitting at the right hand of God,” a Canadian police investigator once told the National Post of his ties to Mr. Rizzuto. “He is a perfect gangster,” said another.

[snip]

Mr. Fernandez was denied parole because he was deemed too dangerous to release. Instead, he was held in prison until the end of his sentence and, in April 2012, deported to Spain.

Police in Canada expected to see him back here, eventually.

“Right now Vito is a man in need. There are few people he’d rather have rallying to him than Fernandez,” a veteran organized crime investigator said.

But, if Italian authorities are correct in their allegations, the Montreal Mafia didn’t so much need his muscle in Canada as his presence forging new opportunities in Sicily.

Bodies of Joe Bravo and Fernando Pimentel found [Re: antimafia] #714837
05/09/13 12:33 PM
05/09/13 12:33 PM
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Italian authorities are confident that two charred bodies found in Casteldaccia are those of Juan Ramon Fernandez and Fernando Pimentel, the latter being the Canadian who travelled to Sicily to meet up with Fernandez.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714850
05/09/13 01:31 PM
05/09/13 01:31 PM
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Baltimore, MD
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From http://www.gds.it/gds/sezioni/cronache/dettaglio/articolo/gdsid/260025/

It is Juan Ramon Fernandez and Fernando Pimentel. The two were among the recipients of the detention order which yesterday cleared the mafia gang of Bagheria, in the province of Palermo. Had no more news of them since April 9



PALERMO. The bodies of two men killed by gunshots alemeno thirty, were found today in an illegal dump waste in the district Fiorilli, to Castedaccia, by the Carabinieri of the ROS and the Investigative Unit of the Provincial Command of Palermo.

The victims, Juan Ramon Paz Fernandez and Fernando Pimentel, were among the 24 recipients of the detained who yesterday faced down the mafia gang of Bagheria. Had no more news of them since 9 April.

To kill the brothers Peter and Salvatore Scaduto, affected, too close to the boss of the center within walking distance of Palermo. They are accused of premeditated, aggravated murder.
According to the reconstruction of the investigators, the victims were first drawn with a trap in the area are, secluded and difficult to pass, and then killed by at least thirty shots fired by two brothers Expired and other as yet unidentified.

VICTIMS
Juan Ramon Paz Fernandez and Fernando Pimentel was under investigation by the ROS that just the presence of Fernandez Paz in Sicily, he had received a report from the Canadian authorities: man, in fact, was indicated as the main exponent of the Rizzuto family in Toronto . It was established in Bagheria in June of 2012, after being expelled from Canada at the end of the Atonement of a sentence of 10 years in prison for extortion, drug trafficking and possession of weapons.
The other victim, Fernando Pimentel, was an affiliate of organized crime in Toronto, arrived in Sicily at the end of March to meet and talk with Fernandez own illegal activities conducted in Canadian territory.

CONTACTS WITH THE CANADIAN MAFIA
The investigation, therefore, have established the existence of an operational link between what our Canadian and his bagherese cell, consisting of a number of affiliates who live in Canada and close to the Rizzuto family.
In this scenario, you enter numerous murders and acts of violence that occurred in the last few years overseas, and that made me think, in the underworld Candes, that the attitude of Fernandez was ambiguous: he, in fact, he preferred not to take sides between the two factions fighting constituted by the old guard of the family, which is headed by the notorious boss Vito Rizzuto, and by an array "rebel" led by Raynald Desjardin.
Just an interception environmental Fernandez reported to have been formally affiliated with the Canadian family of Cosa Nostra with Desjardin, during a ceremony officiated by the same Vito Rizzuto had disobeyed the rule that provides for the affiliation only exponents of Italian origin .

So ends the story of "Joe Bravo" I suppose...


The name is forgettable, I hope the posts are not.
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714867
05/09/13 03:48 PM
05/09/13 03:48 PM
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Does anyone know why they were killed ?


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714869
05/09/13 04:05 PM
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I can't even imagine the cash and drugs that make their way through Montreal....I guess we know why they have been so violent $$$$


"In onore della Famiglia la Famiglia e' aperta"
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714893
05/09/13 06:39 PM
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"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714903
05/09/13 07:41 PM
05/09/13 07:41 PM
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That video is great! My god, great footage!


Okla: Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them?
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: EddieCoyle] #714957
05/09/13 10:37 PM
05/09/13 10:37 PM
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The hit on Juan "Joe Bravo" Fernandez n his associate from what I have read or at least in my opinion is that the Bagheria boss n leaders of the drug network ordered Fernandez n Pimentel hit after Operazione Argo happened. These two guys may very well have been right at the top of the operation as the Canadian reps, but the fact remained that they were not "men of honor", made members of the Bagheria clan or Cosa Nostra.....Vito Rizzuto associates or not. Once the rpund-up of the 22 bosses n members of the Palermo mafia n the drug network were nailed by authorities....two loose cannons, non-Sicilians with heads FULL of knowledge were on the loose.

The Bagheria clan leaders made a quick decision to have the two non-Sicilians hit. The fact that the Scaduto brothers, Salvatore n Pietro, two Bagheria clan members, have been arrested for the hits n this shows the Bagheria clan more than likely sanctioned the hits. Salvatorehad known Joe Bravo n Pimentel while he lived n operated in Toronto with the other Sicilian factions based in Toronto. Sal Scaduto was tied to Toronto-Sicilian faction boss n Rizzuto famy ally, Pietro Scarcella. Scaduto was part of thebotched hit on Michele Modica that left Mrs Russo paralyzed. Scaduto was a Bravo asdociate in Toronto...who betterto send to meet with Fernandez n Pimentel under the guise of letting the two non-Sicilian "Amici" on the run know whats happening or to plan the next move. That is what Bravo thought as he met with Scaduto, butthebrotbets lured them to their death.

Thats my opinion......but you kniwwhatthey say about opinions!

Little Joe Shots resurfaces on OC forums [Re: LittleJoeShots] #714960
05/09/13 10:57 PM
05/09/13 10:57 PM
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^^^^^^
LJS, is that really you?

Are you back? Are you staying on the forums for good?

You know, you really shouldn't have told us you were just stepping out for a cigarette.

If that's really you, welcome back!

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: LittleJoeShots] #714963
05/09/13 11:14 PM
05/09/13 11:14 PM
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Link: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/09/...war-has-spread/

Excerpts:

Canadian’s violent death in Sicily ambush a sign Montreal’s mob war has spread
Adrian Humphreys
National Post
13/05/09 | Last Updated: 13/05/09 9:31 PM ET

Juan Ramon Fernandez, described by police in Canada as “a perfect gangster,” died the perfect Hollywood gangster death — ambushed by mob rivals, dying in a hail of bullets and his body burned in a field in the picturesque countryside outside Palermo, the historic capital city of Sicily.

Mr. Fernandez was slain alongside another mob-linked man from Canada and, in a persuasive sign that Montreal’s mob war has spread to Sicily, the very birthplace of the Mafia, one of two men charged with their murders was also previously deported from Canada.

“We believe the order to kill him came from Canada. We are sure of it,” said an Italian officer working on the large investigation.

The gold Rolex watch Mr. Fernandez held precious as the only jewellery he could bring with him from Canada, was found in the possession of one of those charged with his murder, said investigators.

The murders backstop a large investigation by Italian police revealing the trans-Atlantic reach of the Mafia in Canada, with mobsters shuttling from Toronto and Montreal to arrange global drug shipments and even continuing their underworld feud abroad as if borders did not exist.

“There’s four guys at an important Mafia murder in Sicily and three of them lived in Canada. That says a lot about the Mafia here, their mobility, their relationships internationally,” said an Ontario organized crime investigator.

[snip]

Mr. Fernandez’s last day alive was April 9 when he and Fernando Pimentel, 36, an associate from Mississauga, Ont., who was visiting him in Sicily, left for a meeting to close a marijuana deal, authorities say.

He was meeting Pietro and Salvatore Scaduto, two brothers, in an isolated field outside Bagheria, near Palermo, where Mr. Fernandez was told a large marijuana crop was being harvested, authorities alleged. Mr. Fernandez knew the brothers and trusted them; he was heard many times on police wiretaps extolling their friendship.

The deal, however, was a planned ambush, the type needed to kill someone as feared as Mr. Fernandez.

When they got out of the car, they were met with a fusillade of bullets, killing them both, authorities said. Their bodies were stripped of their valuables, pushed into the bush at the side of the dirt road and burned.

Police wondered why Mr. Fernandez was suddenly no longer heard on the wiretaps. The surveillance teams that usually watched him stroll about town had no one to follow.

“He went silent,” said the officer. “We thought he may have started a journey for Canada.”

But days later, one of the Scaduto brothers was caught trying to sell Mr. Fernandez’s Rolex watch for 3,000 euros, authorities said.

The watch was not something Mr. Fernandez would let go willingly.

“He loved that watch. Every day he wore this watch. Every day,” said the officer in Italy, who requested his name not be published. Italian police had heard him say it was the only piece not confiscated by police in Canada.

Investigators in Canada believe the watch was given to him by Vito Rizzuto, the Mafia boss from Montreal for whom Mr. Fernandez worked while in Canada.

[snip]

Two months after Mr. Fernandez was released from prison in Canada in April 2004 and deported to Spain he arrived in Bagheria.

Again showing the links between the underworld of Canada and Italy, he chose the city because as many as 10 mafiosi there have ties to Canada, primarily with the Rizzuto crime family, the officer said.

Several are former residents of Canada, including Michele Modica, Andrea Carbone and Pietro Scaduto — all of whom were involved in the notorious California Sandwiches shooting in Toronto in 2004, a botched mob hit that left Louise Russo, an innocent mother, paralyzed.

After that shooting, all were deported back to Bagheria.

[snip]

But as the mobsters erase borders, police herald their own international co-operation: Italian authorities were alerted to Mr. Fernandez by Canadian police.

“We were notified that a very important wiseguy had arrived in Sicily and we started to investigate this guy,” said the officer....

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #714990
05/10/13 08:34 AM
05/10/13 08:34 AM
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They already charged someone for murdering them? Man, things are moving fast! Within a week he in Sicily, charged with a crime, then murdered, and there are already people charged with the murder?

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: GerryLang] #714992
05/10/13 08:39 AM
05/10/13 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: GerryLang
They already charged someone for murdering them? Man, things are moving fast! Within a week he in Sicily, charged with a crime, then murdered, and there are already people charged with the murder?


Fernandez was in Sicily for nearly a year and he was not charged with any crime in Sicily. The other one, since March. The Scaduto brothers have been arrested for killing him.

Last edited by carmela; 05/10/13 08:41 AM.

La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: Strax] #715002
05/10/13 10:24 AM
05/10/13 10:24 AM
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I find it very interesting the name Raynald gets mentioned in this video. Why would Raynald who is in jail in Montreal, not in good favor with the Rizzutos and not of Italian origin be mentioned by Italian police in this video? Joe Bravo had always been loyal to Rizzutos even after he got out and deported. Could Raynald have called for this hit to hinder the progress of the Rizzutos? Hes a big player in Montreal but I don't get how his reach would reach Sicily. Raynald like many older french players are all about smuggling and playing the local smuggling routes he doesn't need Sicily or Italians for that matter. All his Italian connections are now his enemies or dead. Very few are remaining that were very tight with him and none left with blood ties or marriage ties.This whole Montreal war has a crazy reach worldwide right now and it is ever so confusing.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715007
05/10/13 10:30 AM
05/10/13 10:30 AM
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carmela Offline
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I'm not buying that video. For one thing, who are those people talking on the video, because they're certainly not translating the words on the screen.
This is somebody's homemade doing, with snippets of pics put to video and put the words up themselves and just did some talking in the background.

Last edited by carmela; 05/10/13 10:32 AM.

La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715020
05/10/13 12:13 PM
05/10/13 12:13 PM
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Montreal
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I had the same feeling but I doubted myself because it was posted by what seems to be a news channel.

Whatever happen Joe Bravo sure does look pissed about something in that video. Maybe some problems happen and they took him out for it maybe he over stepped his boundaries. I also wouldn't rule out the fact that the Sadutos felt thretended by him and acted alone. Whos to say Joe Bravo went there and said hey you use to work for me so pay up and they had problem with it because they had already established themselves in Sciliy.

I doubt the theory that he would be taken out for not being made and knowing to much as he has never ratted and always done his time, hes a true man of honor made or not. Not to mention the mafia is increasingly using outsiders especially the Rizzuto Organization. It is also plausible that this is directly related to the conflict in Canada and Joe Bravo either got killed for protecting Rizzutos interests or he switched sides and the Rizzutos had him taken out. Your guess is as good as mine.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715034
05/10/13 01:22 PM
05/10/13 01:22 PM
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Seems that one of the 21 arrested in the roundup has decided to talk--he's the one who provided the tip about the location of the bodies.

http://palermo.blogsicilia.it/ce-un-nuovo-pentito-nella-mafia-bagherese/185793/

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715039
05/10/13 01:58 PM
05/10/13 01:58 PM
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Re:PalermoBlog - The article also indicates the hit was ordered by Vito because he was concerned Fernandez had switched sides with his enemies.

Last edited by Johnny_Pops; 05/10/13 02:00 PM.

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli" - Clemenza
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: Johnny_Pops] #715040
05/10/13 02:01 PM
05/10/13 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Johnny_Pops
The article also indicates the hit was ordered by Vito because he was concerned Fernandez had switched sides with his enemies.


This seems the most plausible theory to me. Also, I've read in some Italian articles that Vito seemed upset with Fernandez for not seeking revenge when his son was killed, leading more to the theory that Fernandez was no longer loyal to Rizzuto.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: carmela] #715041
05/10/13 02:19 PM
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livelifenoregrets Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Pops
The article also indicates the hit was ordered by Vito because he was concerned Fernandez had switched sides with his enemies.


This seems the most plausible theory to me. Also, I've read in some Italian articles that Vito seemed upset with Fernandez for not seeking revenge when his son was killed, leading more to the theory that Fernandez was no longer loyal to Rizzuto.


I don't think its because of his son being murdered. If that was the case then Rizzuto has a couple of hundred guys to take out?...What happen to Arcadi? Sollecito? Cotronis? Commissos?[BadWord]? Carunas? All his former allies...Nobody retaliated or so it seems. We still don't really know who is on what side so its hard to say if there was retaliation or not thus far. Bravo as well as Vito's closest MTL allies were in jail when it happen and then Bravo was deported so I question his ability to really make retaliation happen.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: livelifenoregrets] #715042
05/10/13 02:30 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Pops
The article also indicates the hit was ordered by Vito because he was concerned Fernandez had switched sides with his enemies.


This seems the most plausible theory to me. Also, I've read in some Italian articles that Vito seemed upset with Fernandez for not seeking revenge when his son was killed, leading more to the theory that Fernandez was no longer loyal to Rizzuto.


I don't think its because of his son being murdered. If that was the case then Rizzuto has a couple of hundred guys to take out?...What happen to Arcadi? Sollecito? Cotronis? Commissos?[BadWord]? Carunas? All his former allies...Nobody retaliated or so it seems. We still don't really know who is on what side so its hard to say if there was retaliation or not thus far. Bravo as well as Vito's closest MTL allies were in jail when it happen and then Bravo was deported so I question his ability to really make retaliation happen.


I read it here as well as a couple other places, but you could be right.

http://antimafiaduemila.com/201305104279...i-due-boss.html

edit: also worth noting, toward the end of the article it states, a murder like this in Sicily done as a "favor" to Rizzuto, could not have been done if not sanctioned by Bagheria families as well as Matteo Messina Denaro. This is their territory, not Rizzuto territory.

Last edited by carmela; 05/10/13 02:34 PM.

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Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: carmela] #715048
05/10/13 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Pops
The article also indicates the hit was ordered by Vito because he was concerned Fernandez had switched sides with his enemies.


This seems the most plausible theory to me. Also, I've read in some Italian articles that Vito seemed upset with Fernandez for not seeking revenge when his son was killed, leading more to the theory that Fernandez was no longer loyal to Rizzuto.


I don't think its because of his son being murdered. If that was the case then Rizzuto has a couple of hundred guys to take out?...What happen to Arcadi? Sollecito? Cotronis? Commissos?[BadWord]? Carunas? All his former allies...Nobody retaliated or so it seems. We still don't really know who is on what side so its hard to say if there was retaliation or not thus far. Bravo as well as Vito's closest MTL allies were in jail when it happen and then Bravo was deported so I question his ability to really make retaliation happen.


I read it here as well as a couple other places, but you could be right.

http://antimafiaduemila.com/201305104279...i-due-boss.html

edit: also worth noting, toward the end of the article it states, a murder like this in Sicily done as a "favor" to Rizzuto, could not have been done if not sanctioned by Bagheria families as well as Matteo Messina Denaro. This is their territory, not Rizzuto territory.


Perhaps done as a favor but it wouldn't have to be sanctioned. He was considered an associate of the Rizzuto family and he isn't made or even Italian so I doubt a sanction or permission would be required of anyone for Vito to have that trigger pulled. He could easily fly someone in or have someone local who wants to earn some stripes get the job done. However any theory is plausible at this point. It can go either way but I'm not convinced. And If Rizzuto wanted him dead because of his son then who sponsored Bravo to start working out in Sicily in the first place?

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715050
05/10/13 02:59 PM
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carmela Offline
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^^^ Well, that's where you're wrong. Bagheria, Palermo, is in no way shape or form, Rizzuto territory. It would definitely have to be sanctioned by the families that control that territory.


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Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715051
05/10/13 03:08 PM
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Regardless of who controls that territory. They aren't killing a made guy. They aren't killing an associate of the Bagheria crew. They are killing a spanish guy of their own crew from Canada. Last time I checked if you aren't a made guy or connected by family/blood ties then its fair game especially if the guy is from your own crew. You think they would even ask what happen or even care?

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715052
05/10/13 03:40 PM
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@Carmela: how often there are informants these days in Sicily?


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: Strax] #715053
05/10/13 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Strax
@Carmela: how often there are informants these days in Sicily?


More and more. In almost every big blitz anymore, there is one.
Yesterday I even read a list of arrests in Agrigento and included in the article was the list of people, shop owners, restaurant owner, etc, that had informed authorities they were trying to be extorted by these individuals.

@livelifenoregrets... If made men were used to make the hits on even non-made men, there had to have been an OK by the families.


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Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715055
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More and more will continue to become informants. With laws getting more strict its tough to face life in jail for anyone.


@carmela...thats a big if because we would have to assume a made guy pulled the trigger and didn't that whole crew just get busted before he was murdered? Regardless Its rare made guys ever pull the trigger anymore. The mob got smarter than that over the years.

It still doesn't make sense that the local guys would pull the trigger on orders from Rizzuto because if he wanted him dead it would have been done the day he arrived. Its not like Nick JR was murdered a week ago, he was murdered while Bravo was still in a Canadian prison. Either the local guys Bravo was affiliated with were part of the coallition against the Rizzutos and took on Bravo for his Canadian connections then Rizzuto got him done in. Or Bravo was still allied with the Rizzutos and because the Rizzutos don't know who they can trust they put Bravo in place over there which led to his demise.

We can theorize all day and not get any closer to the truth but I think the days of sanctions and permission to do certain things is over. Its war time right now. If you want to kill a guy yea you might ask your boss if you can do it but you're not going to sit around a table with other families to ask for permission. Rizzuto lost his eldest son and father, we know damn well nobody asked his permission before getting that done and who can he really trust? I don't think hes asking for permission to do anything, I think he's a lot bigger than we know in the mafia scheme of things and hes getting back to what he was.

Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: antimafia] #715056
05/10/13 04:12 PM
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I read article saying how sicilian cosa nostra is falling apart,i was sceptical but now...


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: livelifenoregrets] #715058
05/10/13 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
More and more will continue to become informants. With laws getting more strict its tough to face life in jail for anyone.


@carmela...thats a big if because we would have to assume a made guy pulled the trigger and didn't that whole crew just get busted before he was murdered? Regardless Its rare made guys ever pull the trigger anymore. The mob got smarter than that over the years.

It still doesn't make sense that the local guys would pull the trigger on orders from Rizzuto because if he wanted him dead it would have been done the day he arrived. Its not like Nick JR was murdered a week ago, he was murdered while Bravo was still in a Canadian prison. Either the local guys Bravo was affiliated with were part of the coallition against the Rizzutos and took on Bravo for his Canadian connections then Rizzuto got him done in. Or Bravo was still allied with the Rizzutos and because the Rizzutos don't know who they can trust they put Bravo in place over there which led to his demise.

We can theorize all day and not get any closer to the truth but I think the days of sanctions and permission to do certain things is over. Its war time right now. If you want to kill a guy yea you might ask your boss if you can do it but you're not going to sit around a table with other families to ask for permission. Rizzuto lost his eldest son and father, we know damn well nobody asked his permission before getting that done and who can he really trust? I don't think hes asking for permission to do anything, I think he's a lot bigger than we know in the mafia scheme of things and hes getting back to what he was.


Unless I read it wrong, one article stated that they found one the weapons used in the possession of the Scaduto's. They are made men, no? And I agree with what you said above, Vito Rizzuto is and has been exacting his revenge. He is taking out any and all perceived enemies. Especially the ones who killed son and father.

Carmela, have you heard how much influence and/or power Vito Rizzuto still has on the island of Sicily? Does he still have powerful allies. I don't knowm but IMO I would say 'yes'. Whaddya think?

Last edited by SilentPartnerz; 05/10/13 04:27 PM.

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Re: Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily [Re: Strax] #715059
05/10/13 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Strax
I read article saying how sicilian cosa nostra is falling apart,i was sceptical but now...


The rats are few, just compared to what it used to be, it's more. I've mentioned recently about the big trial beginning on May 20, with 51 mafiosi arrested last June in Operation Nuovo Cupola. It's set to be the biggest mafia trial in Sicily in decades. All top men that were working toward a new cupola.

@livelifenoregrets... I totally get what you're saying. The only thing is they are all about the territories down there. Rizzuto has nothing to say about what can happen in Palermo. He barely can have a say anymore in Agrigento, he's been gone so long. It's not the sicily he left. He needed someone to OK this, if he indeed did order it.

And in Sicily, made men pull the trigger all day long.

Last edited by carmela; 05/10/13 04:27 PM.

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