Okay, 85% is almost 90%. That's what I said .

Yeah, state time varies. But in New York, felons generally max out at around 2/3rds on average.

You also have to take into account the guys that got back out on the street during these years. More got out of the can than in. Marino and Vernace are in jail along with Trucchio. But a lot of people from old Bridge are out now. Arnold Squitieri is due out before Christmas along with Sonny Ciccone and Lou Vallerio next year. Plus Marino gets out in 2014. So they lose some but they also gain a lot when guys get released and regain old rackets.

There was a pretty big lucchese bust back in '09 that picked up dinapoli, madonna, and desimone...profeta and croce also were picked up in that if I remember right. There was also that younger skipper joe lubrano who got a couple years recently.

Forgot about that. I kind of considered the 2007 and 2009 indictments together since they got the same top 2 guys (Madonna and DiNapoli).

52 of the 60 American mobsters didn't even get 3 years. Heavy hitters like Thomas Cacciopoli, Frank Cali, Domenico Cefalu, Jackie D'Amicoa and Leonard DiMaria all got released. It's just the Corozzo brothers and Charles Carneglia that got hit hard.

That's the new reality of Mafia life. You're considered a stable family if you got more guys coming out of prison than going in.

That's why the Gambino's are doing so well. I'll be the first one to admit that the mafia don't wield the power they did 20 years ago. But they're alive and Families like the Lucchese's and Gambino's, who got more coming out than in are operating effectively right now. Genovese Union control took a hit this past spring with Conrad Ianiello, but they could get off light, and that's probably a small fragment of what they actually control.

What's the ruling on Nicky Skins' Testimony? Admissible or no?

Different sources give slightly different answers. It looks like most the tapes will be admissible. I think the only issue is verifying the identities of the people on the tapes. Whoever is wearing the wire usually testify to the identities. Without Skins, the Feds will have to be able to prove the identities some other way. A surveillance photo of the people at the meeting and the date documented would do. I wonder if no first-hand account of the meetings will create doubt in a juries mind? It's guys like Ligambi's only hope.

I dont think when they get out they automatically regain there old rackets. If you look at Marino and his crew that got busted in 2010, they were involved in whole laundry list of activity loan sharking, gambling, extortion, drug trafficking, prostitution. The feds bust up the sex trafficking and drug dealing, theres probably someone baby sitting any gambling or loansharking that wasnt touched by the indictment, also the fact a lot of them werent given bail adds to the time behind bars, they might be able to run things to a certain extent from prison but not as effectively. Dont get me wrong marino still has money and even his position in the family but i doubt hes gonna have a full strength crew thats involved with such a wide variety of crimes, hes gonna have to build things up again.

Makes no difference. Whatever time you spent in jail during your trial counts as time served if you are convicted.

Even if a person is jailed only for 1 or 2 years. Other factions within the family can still be indicted within that time, like weve seen over the past few years. Just because someones released doesnt mean they are gonna have some sort of significant impact on the current situation of the group as a whole. Very rarely is a gang at full strength, it also depends upon the leadership as well which is often made up of regimes and cliques of close associates who are gonna be given preferential treatment by the boss because they benefit him the most directly and then you get the other part of the family that doesnt get as much attention from the boss because there not really in his close group or connected to his regime. Its all about how far the leadership is willing to extend itself and resources to make sure every crew in the family is running up to standard or if they should just give preference to their own activities and those in their own faction.

Even so the Gambino's aren't short on people in Queens. Marino is in jail, and Vernace is waiting trial, but they got two heavy hitters in Cacciopoli and Paradiso. Apparently "Tommy Sneakers" is the top captain there right now. They got four or five capos each in Brooklyn/Staten Island and Manhattan. Couple that with untouched Bronx and Jersey Crews, with a soon to be released Underboss and Sonny Ciccone, with a Boss who lays low to begin with. That's a solid Family for this day and age.

Until the next rat comes along.

Again whos to say any of the people youve mentioned wont be indicted in the next few years, the feds gotta be keeping an eye on new targets now after all these busts. And i dont think cefalu is that low key considering hes been in and out of jail as well and the fact that his boss status has been made public knowledge through the papers and fbi so i dont know why people are saying hes somehow different than the rest of the previous bosses. It seems that the title of boss mostly amounts to collecting the money and just generally babysitting things until either they get indicted or replaced. I think the one recent boss who tried to shake things up a bit within his family as a whole was vinny basciano but hes doing life in colorado and his successors were busted as well.

^Cefalu is different from previous Gambino bosses in the sense that he doesn't flaunt himself like the Gotti's, D'Amico, and others. He lives with his mom for God's sake. Whether or not he's just babysitting is irrelevant, he's the boss, they have to listen to him. The mafia breaks its rules all the time, but after Marino and Vernace were indicted, Dom was the only Senior leader left on the street. He was the only choice really.
As for the FBI, they target people all the time. But with the Gambino Family it's simply a revolving door. One guy gets 3 or 4 years while another one waves and gets released. Crews get taken down, but people come up and replace them. That's why they are the solid 2 behind the Genovese Family. I think you are underscoring them slightly.

Question all... with D'Amico out, has anyone heard what his role is going to be? Will he be going back to be a Capo? How was his relationship with Cefalu prior to going to prison?

Besides the gottis how were the bosses after them such as damico flaunting themselves. What difference does it make if he's living with his mother hes still has to conduct business and pop his head up. Just because hes sicilian and the only senior leader on the street doesnt mean hes gonna be different or even significant in the long run. Im not just talking about the gambinos, im talking about all the families and the dynamics of how they operate. Im not underscoring them or anything i just dont believe that they are run as well as the media and some of the authors who have made a living out of selling the la cosa nostra to the public make them out to be. Also i dont think people just get replaced like that, i think that if one crew is busted and the top members of that crew are taken off the street, the members left on the street arent as powerful and have to step into the role and then overtime they might get that recognition, or another stronger crew becomes more prevalent, what you have to understand is that these are criminally minded people, there only looking out for their own interests, if another faction of the family being weak is good for them in any way then there not gonna go out there way to help them. Theres no real unity, just alliances when it suits them, just look at the colombo wars, castalano/gotti situation, even the bonnano wars where they practically told their original boss and namesake to fuck off.

Read this about how the mafia has been exaggerated by the media. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6AxEi...eld&f=false

and im not trying to say the mafia is weak or that other groups are stronger, so i dont want to get into that argument on this thread.

Scorcese I think they are better run than most criminal organizations despite the greed and discontent among members. But you're right, it isn't about comparing them to other groups. I think that for crime in this day and age, when the FBI rountinely busts different ethnic groups, the Italian-American Mafia holds its own as well as anyone.

really if it wasnt for the fact they have been using the same names for their families for ages then really it would just be seen as different entities taking control, like you would say the gotti gang instead of the gambinos, or the basciano crew instead of the bonannos. Its sort of like the drug gangs that move into an area after another gang gets busted. Theres an existing structure but a different hierarchy.

True. It's more out of respect for the old bosses, or else Gotti would have changed the name as soon as he got the top spot. But you're right about one thing: different crews get powerful at different times. Jimmy Ears crew gets busted for racketeering, but that allows Frankie Numbuts crew to get more rackets and earn the favor of the boss. Six years later, Frankie gets busted, but Vinny Mustard just got released along with most of his crew and starts collecting again. So its a cycle fueled by money. But the members do have to retain a certain 'level' of recognition for the heirarchy that's in place. Otherwise the Five Families wouldn't even exist.

At the height of Massino's reign, he spread the word that his family would now be known as the Massino family. You can even see it in some of the old indictments from that time.