Was just curious ,if anyone thought that others would cooperate at the big mob trial? I looked at this new guy big Lou fazzinni ,not sure of correct spelling ,but the guy if convicted is looking at 20 years cause he has about 8 priors ! Also aim sure they still have undercover operators out there giving information !

I had a thought the other day upon reading the Ligami-Licata indictments and wondered what destruction would occur if Masssimino flipped. That guy is huge and well respected.

According to George Anastasia, he's pretty much the last guy people think will flip. He's spent much of his life in prison anyway and he just doesn't seem to be the type.

If he flips ,it could bring things going back to the 70's ! He could just be waiting to see how the trial goes and then do what Leonnetti did ,wait till after ! How much time can a man do ! Same goes for Georgie ,if they give him another 20 years ,it's his only way out !

I would almost have to agree about Borgesi.He's about what 48 if he got 20 yrs. he's out give or take a few yrs.at age 65.So he's going to be remembered as a stand up guy?Or maybe he would co-operate and get out in a couple.I'm not for ratting but times have changed.Rat and live free or live locked up like a stand-up guy.

If there are no murder charges I wouldnt expect anyone else to flip. Can't see Staino who is a first time offender flipping since he will be sure to get light time. Mousie is a life time criminal so I do not see him flipping. Borgesi wont flip, He would have already 12 years ago facing much higher charges (I belive the death penatly was on the table had they not beat the murder charges).

^^^thats what they said about Bent Finger Lou

Anybody could flip.

Massino did

George is still a young guy ! Why would he want to do another ten years for an organization/street gang that didn't take care of him! Why waste your life away ! I don't think we will see anyone flip until after trial ! They are going to role the dice and if they lose at trial those that flip first will spill their guts !

Who ever said he wouldn't flip?! People were saying "that guy is a fake gangster who is going to rat some day" as soon as he appeared on the radar. Hell I even called it and I'm not a street guy at all.

Not true, most people were saying when he first got pinched that he wouldnt roll on mostly gambling stuff but obcourse those people were proved wrong. People were saying he was a fake gangster but were surprised he flipped over some minor charges.

Sure, anybody could flip, hypothetically. I think it's a question of of who is more or less likely to flip.

lets face these charges seem to be very week.i dont see anybody serious flipping unless they bring some violence into it. your gona tell me in 10 years not one person got touched!!! i grew up in south philly and i know there was always bookies,gamblers and loan sharks out there and difference was the regular shark or bookie never hurt anyone unless you dealt with the mob and that was in the 70s

wheres the serious stuff like money laundering, drug dealing ,conspiracy to commit murder, murder.robbery, prostitution, pornagraphy. are they serious with gambling and loansharking??

Actually there is some violence and threats of violence.

The 52-count second superseding indictment also charges 12 defendants who were previously charged in a May 23, 2011, superseding indictment: Philadelphia LCN family acting boss Joseph Ligambi, Philadelphia LCN family underboss Joseph Massimino, George Borgesi, Martin Angelina, Anthony Staino, Jr., Gaeton Lucibello, Damion Canalichio, Louis Barretta, Gary Battaglini, Robert Verrecchia, Eric Esposito, and Robert Ranieri.

The second superseding indictment adds two new charges against Philadelphia LCN family acting boss Ligambi relating to theft from an employee benefit plan administered by the Teamsters Health and Welfare Fund of Philadelphia and Vicinity. According to the second superseding indictment, from 2003 to 2011, Ligambi unlawfully caused the Teamsters Health and Welfare Fund of Philadelphia and Vicinity to pay the cost of health benefits provided to him and several of his family members through a “no show” job at Top Job Disposal, a Philadelphia-based waste hauling and removal company. As a no show employee, he performed no work or productive services for Top Job Disposal while still receiving pay and health benefits.

The second superseding indictment alleges that for more than a decade, 11 of the defendants, including Ligambi as the acting boss and Massimino as the underboss, as well as other members and associates of the Philadelphia LCN family in Philadelphia and New Jersey, conspired to conduct and participate in the affairs of the Philadelphia LCN family through a pattern of racketeering activity and through the collection of unlawful debts. The alleged racketeering activity includes numerous acts involving extortion, extortionate extensions of credit through usurious loans, extortionate collections, illegal gambling, witness tampering, and theft from an employee benefit plan. The organization’s collection of unlawful debts allegedly relates to its loan sharking operations and debts that arose from their illegal gambling businesses.

According to the second superseding indictment, the defendants promoted and furthered their illegal money making activities through violence, actual and implied threats, and the cultivation and exploitation of the Philadelphia LCN family’s long-standing reputation for violence. The defendants also used this reputation for violence to intimidate and prevent victims and witnesses from cooperating with law enforcement. The second superseding indictment alleges various instances where defendants used phrases such as “chop him up” and “put a bullet in your head” when threatening victims. In one instance, Canalicho allegedly used a bat to beat a victim for not paying a loan debt.

The second superseding indictment alleges that some of the defendants continued their racketeering activities even after being sent to prison. For example, Borgesi and Massimino, while in prison, allegedly generated criminal proceeds for themselves and the Philadelphia LCN family by using intermediaries to operate criminal businesses and to make extortionate demands at their direction.

Gambling and loansharking is usually where mob cases begin. Not to mention all these charges have been folded into a RICO.

i understand all what the indictment alleges but these are just a story told by the defendants. canaliccio is only talking about something he might have or maybe didnt do. there is no actual victim that they can put on the stand. even tho you can consider this an implied threat also when anybody lends money and you ask for it back its an extortionate extension of credit. the word extortion can be used just to collect your money back. what we are used to when we here extortion is a shake down of a business owner fron the 50s. did you ever lend a family member or a good friend money and you had to scream at them or keep calling them to get it back.

lets face nobody forces a guy to borrow anything or gamble on anything. yes its sad when it gets out of hand and over the debters head but i remember my mom back 40 years ago borrowing 2 or 300 dollars to get by when she had to

threats of violence can be desribed in different ways but if there is no true violence then there is none
you can be just telling a story of something that might of or might of not happen

I hear ya and tend to agree about Gambling but thats just where it starts. The wheel that makes the mob tick. But they do have recorded conversations where threats of violence were made. One I think was of Staino talking directly to a CI or Fed (not sure) about how he likes him and doesn't want to have to hurt him. And there are others.

we will see how it plays out but unless they have a witness thats gona go on the stand with medical records, doctor reports or say that they were beatin then really its just words or blowing steam. And yes this is were alot of rico cospiracys start but if they dont add any serious charges then i do think its weak.From what i hear the trial got pushed back to october

Main charge is the RICO charges that will get them as they roll them all into one, whether its fair or not I do not know, but the tape recordings of the initiations and etc, will weigh big on some of the defendants

i agree with you merlino that the charge of rico can shake up defendants and from what i read those tapes can be bad for ligambi and staino cause they show some unity

I personally as people have stated dont think the gambling thing is bad because in s philly there is legalized gambling a mile north at Sugarhouse and a little further at Parxx so, there is gambling going on there, then the loanshark thing comes into play but doesnt Montell Williams advertise for a money lender that charges close to 30%....I don't know....lots of feds on these guys and tough punishments

I personally think these guys are going to get hit hard.Maybe if its your first offense you might be ok but then again I don't think Staino has a record but him allegedley talking directley to an f.b.i. guy will hurt him big time.I think there will be some high-end 10 yr. sentences and if your Ligambi that means your officially retired and Borgesi who was supposed to be a free man July 3rd of this yr.another 10 would be a nightmare.I hear a lot of people say why do the feds go after these guys so hard when your getting screwed by banks,lending instatutions,the government on a daily basis.I think a lot of it is personal.I mean the banks screw you,the mortgage companies what can you do.But to these feds when you got an arrogant guy like Borgesi and others making comments like ''I make more in a week than you do all yr.''It's almost like these guys[the feds]want to get the last laugh,and they will stop at nothing to get it.Lets be real the next time in a courtroom if the judge slaps Borgesi with another 10 yrs.the fed will relish saying ''good luck Georgie see ya in 2023.

hey i heard through the grapevine that staino got offered a plea deal of 63 months and turned it down. isnt he the one thats saying hed have 2 gorillas beat him and chop him up? isnt he the one when i look at the indictment that has 29 counts? seems like if theres no true violence theres no true federal case. a little over 5 years and you turn it down. shocking!!!

I'm just anxious to see how this will all go.I know there's a lot of guys doing time in Federal Prison on non-violent crimes.I can't see these prosecutors and state sending the message that we will tolerate this stuff as long as there is no violence.So if they do get convicted apparantley that judge is known for long sentences.

I would think after sentencing, someone might come out and squeal depending on how many months they receive. I don't condone ratting but given Philadelphia's History George Borgesi, having to do more then 5 years after being in that long for a stupid bookmaking operation in Delaware county. If he can get give them information on the murders and that's what they care about because its relevant now that its mentioned on a wiretap. Greed is what there about and if the feds offer someone a sweet deal cash packages, new location etc etc. this case would bust wide open. I know people that are bookmakers got busted and get probation and they have a lot more money (at least on the surface) then some of these guys.

Staino

Said that to the undercover Fed who was able to wein his way in probably from an associate who got pinched and vouched for this guy I think he was referred to as "Dino." I'm not a millionaire but picking up 200 in cash 300 in cash every month, I'd slap the guy in the face with that money.