If history could change..shots fired at Umberto's, none hit Gallo. Joey goes ballistic that they would try to kill him in front of his family. He becomes cautious and paranoid. What would be the outcome?

The shots hit him the next time, or the time after that, or the time after that etc etc. If someone wants to kill you, you are going to be killed. Its not fantasy land like on tv or the movies.

How strong was Gallo at the time? Could there have been a point where maybe Carlo would have taken his side?

My understanding of the Colombo hit is limited, but I'm under the impression Gallo might have thought he had Gambino backing (a la Bruno and Tony Bananas.)

So you are saying you think Gallo had Colombo killed?

Gallo definitely had eliminating Colombo on his mind but another strong theory is that Carlo Gambino actually arranged it to make it look like Gallo, using Jerome Johnson as a patsy. I personally think that was the case, part of Gambino's genius, that he not only eliminated the greatest threat to the Commission in Colombo but laid the blame on that boss's greatest threat within his own family. In essentially one master stroke, he shut Colombo up and Crazy Joe, the next biggest public threat to stability in La Cosa Nostra to Colombo. I don't think that they would have cooperated in this hit because Carlo had withdrawn his support for their revolt back in the day and I don't think Crazy Joe would trust him on something like that again.

To Lenin..I have done a bunch of research on Gallo and I have a hard time trying to get a reliable idea of how many guys he had and whether he did in fact bring in black muscle and business partners. That said, I do have a few thoughts of what would have happened if Gallo lived. There are many possibilities but they all lead one way or another to the inevitable full-scale Gallo-Persico War. We can all imagine where that would go. If Gallo was able to build up a sizable drug operation with black gangs and a strong force he could have potentially won. However, he wins and lets the blacks in, the Commission gives the nod and he's gone. You think Carlo Gambino and Tony Ducks would've liked some mulignans making inroads into their thing? Hell no. Some people say he would retire to celebrity gangsterdom, but the reality of it was that Crazy Joe was a gangster before anything. There was never going to be a retirement, he started two Colombo Family Wars for Christ's sake. One thing is for sure though, for Joey Gallo to live, Carmine Persico would have to die and it's kind of intriguing to think about what a war between a rejuvenated Gallo faction going up against the Persico side. That would have been nasty.

In your research, do you have anything linking Gallo to Johnson? Or linking him to anybody directly? Or you saying just because he is black it makes the hit look like Gallo is behind it? I know they say Johnson was street hustler. Great post, a Gallo-Persico war would have been hit crazy. Who do you think the rest of the families would have cornered with?

I think it Joey survived that close attempt on his life he would have been super pissed and started another revolt and another war in full swing

The only support for the Gallos, we can be sure of, came from Tony Bender in the early 1960´s. There are indications also, that Gambino and Lucchese, with the Gallo revolt, rubbed their hands in contentment because it weakened their political enemies on the Commission.

On the Colombo hit, there is a theory circulating the internet that perhaps should be taken more seriously than we are willing to do. The conclusion of the theory is that Johnson acted on his own as a revenge for a killing of a black man at a "white" party in a house in NJ some months prior to the Colombo hit.
The killed man had danced with a white woman which led to his death. The killer had strong ties to the Colombo Family.
Some research says that the killed, black man moved in the same circles as Johnson and that they had briefly lived in the same neigborhood in NJ.
So in this scenario, Johnson acted on his own, without any Mafia support. But of course, for this theory to work, a friendship between the killed black man and Johnson has to be proven.

I think Scarpa, after the Colombo hit, reported to the FBI that Joey Gallo was a total outcast and a fair game to all the NY Families. I don´t think he would have lasted pretty long if he would have survived the "Umberto Clam House" hit.

I agree. Gallo was essentially finished with organized crime at the time of his death because he was too busy being a "celebrity" and pseudo-intellectual to have any credibility with Mob people who could have made things happen for him.

As for Gallo and Columbo: I posted on this recently. I think it might have been an insude job, possibly with police help:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post641445

I never found anything linking Gallo, Johnson, Gambino or anyone. I didn't find any links between Johnson and, say, the Nicky Barnes or other black mobs Gallo had contacts with. I've heard what Hairy Knuckles says above before and am not sure what to think of that.

As for Crazy Joe, I would like to think that if he does survive he gets out of the game but in the end he gets it. He had just been way too disrespectful to the Mafia establishment to be kept around. How long after Umberto's you think he would have survived?

Carlo had Colombo killed because Joe was bringing too much attention. I have no idea if carlo used gallo to do it but i doubt carlo would put up with gallo acting crazy. so if gallo had survived that particular night yes he would have gone nuts but im sure he would have been killed eventually anyway

If Crazy Joey would have lived on I think it would have been pretty cool. It would have been action-packed and I think he would have gone on to Hollywood and been another Benny Seigel.

How many Mafioso were still friends with him? He had a Greek with him as body guard, and no one else but family.

Article from Dec 1972 when they charged Sonny Pinto with the hit on Gallo. I didn't know Big Trin and Indelicato were charged in that case. A relative of Gambino too. Big Trin and Indelicato were with the Bonanno's, right? Huh.

Excellent find!!!! Didn't know they were in on the hit either.

They were not in on the hit, but charged for refusing to testify what they knew about it.

Sonny Red was an old partner of DiBiase. They were involved with a murder in the early 1950s which resulted Sonny Red being put in jail.

Thanks for putting this up Giancarlo!