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Give Him Something Important #638889
03/08/12 10:57 AM
03/08/12 10:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
V
VitoC Offline OP
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VitoC  Offline OP
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Capo
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Stewartstown, PA
In Part I, near the end of the wedding scene, Tom tells Vito: "Now your new son-in-law, give him something important." Vito immediately retorts with: "Never. Give him a living, but never discuss the family business." Vito's distrust of Carlo, of course, proved to be extremely well founded. But why did Tom not only put his trust in him, but do it so early? After all, Tom's most distinguishing characteristic was his ability to stand back and be analytical and dispassionate. Why did he see fit to have Carlo do something major so early on?


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: VitoC] #638891
03/08/12 11:12 AM
03/08/12 11:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
Genco would have smelled a rat whistle.

I always thought that even though Tom said it sternly, this was more of a question: "Now your new son-in-law, give him something important?"

As an aside, Vito knew that plenty of guys married the daughters of rich, powerful men just for the perks.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: pizzaboy] #638930
03/08/12 02:17 PM
03/08/12 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
There is a saying in Spanish that roughly goes: "The most dangerous person in the world is a son-in-law with an idea."


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: dontomasso] #638940
03/08/12 03:18 PM
03/08/12 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,536
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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It was a question--there's a question mark after Tom's statement in the script that's available on Geoff's site.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: Turnbull] #638947
03/08/12 03:58 PM
03/08/12 03:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
Exactly TB. And Genco would have asked the same question.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: olivant] #638953
03/08/12 04:20 PM
03/08/12 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
The question is designed to have Vito be the one to make it expressly clear that Carlo is NEVER to have anything important. He is to make a living, but is never to discuss the family business.

I agree Genco would have put it the same way as Tom did. The consigliere in both cases would be armed with the strict instruction from the big guy that Carlo is and always will be small potatoes in the family.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: dontomasso] #638957
03/08/12 04:28 PM
03/08/12 04:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
The question is designed to have Vito be the one to make it expressly clear that Carlo is NEVER to have anything important. He is to make a living, but is never to discuss the family business.

That's what I always took away from that scene, that the question was rhetorical, but that Tom wanted to hear the answer from Vito's own two lips so he wouldn't be on the hook for it later.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: VitoC] #638965
03/08/12 05:32 PM
03/08/12 05:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
We might also consider that both the novel and film wanted to make the audiences fully aware that Carlo was tolerated by Vito, but not welcomed. Also, that Vito definitely viewed him as an outsider.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: VitoC] #638973
03/08/12 06:18 PM
03/08/12 06:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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mustachepete  Offline
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No. Virginia
I don't have the book in front of, but I think that Tom wasn't certain of what answer he would get from Vito, and was surprised at how strongly he reacted.

That leaves aside the question, why not just give Carlo a place among Vito's legitimate interests? Someone has to sell the olive oil. It seemed odd to me that he should be isolated from the family business, but then turned into a bookmaker.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: mustachepete] #639044
03/09/12 06:18 AM
03/09/12 06:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

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MI
It was definitely a question by Tom in movie and book.

In book, Carlo's low level bookmaking job was the Family's way of "giving him a living" but unusually Carlo's job performance was reported directly to Vito/Tom. There's an incident in book where Carlo had made a mistake transcribing odds and cost the Family money. And this is said to have confirmed Vito's judgment of his son-in-law. Even before all this Connie is said to have disappointed Vito in her choice of a husband.

Getting back to movie I think that someone like Vito by training and birth just had an ability to "read" people quickly. He didn't like the vibe he got from Carlo and wanted to minimize his/Family's exposure to him. I guess they could have found a spot for him at the olive oil company but then that meant Vito would have to see him more often.
And Vito already had one idiot (Fredo) to see every day. wink


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: VitoC] #639045
03/09/12 06:21 AM
03/09/12 06:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Here's the novel:

Antwort auf:
“Your new son-in-law. Do we give him something important, inside the Family?”
He was surprised at the vehemence of the Don’s answer. “Never.” The Don hit the desk with the flat of his hand. “Never. Give him something to earn his living, a good living. But never let him know the Family’s business. Tell the others, Sonny, Fredo, Clemenza.”


Due to his long friendship and co-operation with Vito, Genco probably wouldn't have been as surprised as Tom.
But, pizzaboy, I don't think "Genco would have smelled a rat". At the time of the marriage, Carlo was just a friend of Sonny. Vito was extremely careful.

In a comment on the film, Coppola says that he wanted to have an uglier actress for Connie, because it was easy to fall in love with a beautiful girl. He wanted Carlo to be portrayed as someone who married a not-so-good-looking daughter of a powerful man.

One last thing: Even though it was clear that they wouldn't give him something important, but in fact they really gave him something very unimportant. It must have been humiliating. In a way, the Don created Carlo's hate.

Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: mustachepete] #639109
03/09/12 01:52 PM
03/09/12 01:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
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pizzaboy Offline
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pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: mustachepete
That leaves aside the question, why not just give Carlo a place among Vito's legitimate interests? Someone has to sell the olive oil. It seemed odd to me that he should be isolated from the family business, but then turned into a bookmaker.

That's a fair point, MP. Even a lowly family bookmaker is still part of a bigger criminal conspiracy, so why even give him that if you don't trust him?

He could have given Carlo a legitimate sales route in the olive oil business. Like you said, somebody had to go from store to store and restaurant to restaurant to take the orders.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: Danito] #639122
03/09/12 02:45 PM
03/09/12 02:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 341
North America
Mr. Blonde Offline
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Mr. Blonde  Offline
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North America
Originally Posted By: Danito
It must have been humiliating. In a way, the Don created Carlo's hate.


This is a very insightful comment. It also leads to a circular argument of sorts.

IF Carlo was not of such weak character, would he have at least tried to work his way up the ladder rather than feel entitled? But then, IF that was the case, Vito would have trusted him with more responsibility, right?

But what IF Vito misjudged Carlo and he really had the character and shrewdness that could benefit the family if given more power (despite no evidence to support this)? Could such a misjudgement corrupt an otherwise loyal and shrewd person? Or would Carlo have tried to work his way up the ladder in spite of that if he had actually was a man of character?

Ultimately, Vito judged him, by all accounts accurately, but we will never truly know for certain. Certainly, Carlo was not corrupt when he married Connie, but he either was then or later became corruptable. Either way, Carlo's tale ties perfectly into the larger Godfather theme - Every man has a destiny. Carlo's was to become a &^%$!#@ rat.

Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: Danito] #639126
03/09/12 03:22 PM
03/09/12 03:22 PM
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Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
In a comment on the film, Coppola says that he wanted to have an uglier actress for Connie, because it was easy to fall in love with a beautiful girl. He wanted Carlo to be portrayed as someone who married a not-so-good-looking daughter of a powerful man.


Coppola's sister Talia Shire was perfect for the role and FFC knew it. In the early chapter of the novel it is described that Connie was not particulary attractive, but during the wedding she looked almost beautiful. FFC made that remark as a kind gesture to his sister, as she probably also read the novel and was aware of Connie's appearance.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: Sonny_Black] #639132
03/09/12 04:46 PM
03/09/12 04:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Coppola's sister Talia Shire was perfect for the role and FFC knew it. In the early chapter of the novel it is described that Connie was not particulary attractive, but during the wedding she looked almost beautiful. FFC made that remark as a kind gesture to his sister, as she probably also read the novel and was aware of Connie's appearance.

I guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that because I thought Talia Shire was very pretty back then. But salciccia his own, I guess whistle.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Give Him Something Important [Re: pizzaboy] #639137
03/09/12 05:06 PM
03/09/12 05:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Coppola's sister Talia Shire was perfect for the role and FFC knew it. In the early chapter of the novel it is described that Connie was not particulary attractive, but during the wedding she looked almost beautiful. FFC made that remark as a kind gesture to his sister, as she probably also read the novel and was aware of Connie's appearance.

I guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that because I thought Talia Shire was very pretty back then. But salciccia his own, I guess whistle.


She was nice looking in all of them. I remember one III reviewer who commented that she was perfectly blousy in it. I agree.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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