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Geary's defense? #626173
12/22/11 10:48 PM
12/22/11 10:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

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AZ
Hagen acted with perfect timing in snaring Sen. Geary in the brothel: just soon enough so that the drugged Geary realized he was in big trouble; but well before he was able to think clearly and figure out that he’d fallen into a Corleone trap. Geary leaped at Hagen’s reassurance—“it’ll be as if she never existed”—and when he agreed to spend the night at Michael’s home in Tahoe, his coglioni were in Michael’s pocket. But, if he’d had his wits about him, he could have made an early and overpowering counterattack:

Geary had two big advantages over Michael. First, Geary was a major pezzanovante, and was far better connected with state and federal law enforcement, politicians and judges than Michael. Because of his “legitimate” front, I’m guessing that Michael didn’t think he needed anything like the police/political protection his father needed because Vito’s illegitimate businesses were out on the street and constantly vulnerable. Second, Geary was a Nevada native, which counted for a lot among Nevada pezzanovanti and voters, who looked down on outsiders and new arrivals (we saw a perfect example in the scene between Ace Rothstein and County Commissioner Webb in “Casino”). It’s what emboldened Geary to demand a huge, dirty bribe from Michael while denouncing “the way you come into this clean country, with your oily hair, silk suits…”

So, if Geary had been able to think clearly, he could have gone to the Nevada State Police and the FBI hierarchy with a story that he’d been grabbed by a couple of men as he got into his car, and drugged—awakening in a brothel with a dead hooker next to him. Oh, and that brothel was operated by Fredo Corleone. Seems Geary had been at his brother’s estate not long before, in his official capacity, to accept an endowment for the State University. Afterward, Michael importuned him to improperly use his influence to help force Klingman out of the Tropigala Hotel and have Klingman’s license transferred to Michael or his associates. Of course Geary, ever the honest politician, refused. And so, wasn't there a strong connection between Geary’s refusal of Michael’s demand, and his waking up drugged and set up in Fredo Corleone’s brothel?

Far-fetched as the story might sound, Geary would use it to stimulate the Staties and FBI to investigate Michael's Mob background and continued ties to NY Mafia, and to leak it to news media. At minimum, it’d create just enough doubts about Geary’s guilt for him to duck a murder indictment. And, while the incident might temporarily cost Geary votes, Michael’s background would be exposed publicly. Even if he, Neri or Hagen weren’t charged with the hooker’s murder, Michael’s “legitimate” cover would be blown forever. Geary might even get the Gaming Commission to revoke Michael’s licenses due to his “failure to disclose criminal connections."

Of course Geary wasn’t in any shape to think so clearly that night. But, he attempted revenge several weeks later at the Senate hearings:

As a member of the subcommittee that was investigating Michael, Geary had to know that Pentangeli had survived, and that they were holding him in secret as a witness against Michael. So, when Geary asked Cicci a question seemingly helpful to Michael—“Did you ever get a direct order from him [Michael], or was there always a buffer?” and Cicci replied, “No, I never talked to him,” Michael relaxed. He was lulled into thinking that Cicci was the top-ranking witness against him. And, since Cicci testified that he never got a direct order from Michael, it was ok for him to lie under oath. Geary played the key role in tricking Michael into committing perjury five times. It almost succeeded.

Your thoughts?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #626195
12/23/11 01:10 AM
12/23/11 01:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,469
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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mustachepete  Offline
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No. Virginia
Did Cicci say, "No, I never talked to him," to Geary or was that before Geary spoke? Once the statement was made, I don't think that Geary's amplification added much to Michael's perjury risk.

If Geary set a trap, I think it would have to be explained why he seems to have survived the final scene.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #626222
12/23/11 07:50 AM
12/23/11 07:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Berlin, Germany
I think that move would have cost Geary more than just some temporary loss of votes.
The Corleones could produce lots of witnesses who had seen Geary in the brothels. Maybe even a prostitute who would tell more about the stuff they had done "befower".
Maybe he could pull the Corleones into some mess. But he would drown with them.
Geary was dizzy when Tom talked to him. But when Tom said "All that's left is our friendship", he must have known what was going on, because Tom was there when Geary tried to squeeze Michael, and he must have known the meaning of "friendship" in the Mafia context.

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #626254
12/23/11 03:11 PM
12/23/11 03:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,469
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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Just to follow up on something: I've always assumed that Geary wasn't actually part of the committee, because he excuses himself to go elsewhere and I can't imagine a member of such a high profile committee doing that. I don't think that it would be an exceptional circumstance for a senator to sit in on a committee hearing without being a member of the committee, provided that he had some interest in the subject matter.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: mustachepete] #626256
12/23/11 03:30 PM
12/23/11 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

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Texas
Originally Posted By: mustachepete
Just to follow up on something: I've always assumed that Geary wasn't actually part of the committee, because he excuses himself to go elsewhere and I can't imagine a member of such a high profile committee doing that. I don't think that it would be an exceptional circumstance for a senator to sit in on a committee hearing without being a member of the committee, provided that he had some interest in the subject matter.


Actually, since there are usually about 20 Senate standing committees and only 100 Senators, each Senator is a member of several committees and most Senators are the Chair or vice-chair of at least one committee or sub-committee. Given constraints on a Senator's time, it's unlikely that a Senator would sit in on the proceedings of a committee of which he was not a member.

Last edited by olivant; 12/24/11 12:35 AM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Geary's defense? [Re: olivant] #626325
12/23/11 10:58 PM
12/23/11 10:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
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South of the Pinelands
Being part of the same hypocrisy, I think the Senator was sitting on the fence. His little speech before he left the hearings was done to solidify his fence sitting position. It was carefully worded to keep him from commiting to either side. A lot of smoke. Spoken like a true politician.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #627256
12/31/11 08:31 PM
12/31/11 08:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
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Immobiliare Offline
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Made Member
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Gearry's main purpose was self preservation, not an unrelenting agenda to expose Micheal and all his misdemeanours.

Opting to take the path you have suggested would open up a huge can of worms for him, all his dirty laundry would be aired and the impact on his career would be a lot more significant than you are implying.

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #627293
01/01/12 04:15 AM
01/01/12 04:15 AM
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JJ_Gittes Offline
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Apart from his drugged state impairing any sort of immediate reaction, I imagine that once he came to his senses, Geary would, quite simply, have shit himself in terror. Killing the hooker wasn't only done to blackmail Geary, it was to demonstrate to him just who he was dealing with & what they were capable of.

Weathering a sex scandal would have been one thing (he was, after all, an actual customer of the brothel), but any further action against the Corleones would have placed both him and his family in mortal danger. Much, much easier to play ball and reap the benefits.

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: JJ_Gittes] #627470
01/02/12 12:53 PM
01/02/12 12:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
TB's suggestion is not that far fetched given the mentality in 1978. In those days regardless of how much womanizing Geary did (and apparently he was quite open about it...note his comment in front of all the pezzanovante in Havana about wanting one of those red headed Yolanda's) the press would never have written about it, and it would have re-told the story of his "abduction." If it happened in this day and age I don't think he would have been able to pull it off.

One thing that always bothered me about that scene was Neri's
stupid move allowing himself to be seen, forcing Tom to make a gesture telling him to stay hidden.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: dontomasso] #627478
01/02/12 02:01 PM
01/02/12 02:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
One thing that always bothered me about that scene was Neri's
stupid move allowing himself to be seen, forcing Tom to make a gesture telling him to stay hidden.

It was stupid, but it was FFC's way of showing us that Neri, not Geary, murdered the girl.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: JJ_Gittes] #627585
01/02/12 10:29 PM
01/02/12 10:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

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Posts: 17,300
New York
Originally Posted By: JJ_Gittes
Apart from his drugged state impairing any sort of immediate reaction, I imagine that once he came to his senses, Geary would, quite simply, have shit himself in terror. Killing the hooker wasn't only done to blackmail Geary, it was to demonstrate to him just who he was dealing with & what they were capable of.


So dead hooker=horse's head. I never thought of it that way, but it's an excellent point. I always thought of it as simple blackmail.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #627623
01/03/12 02:22 AM
01/03/12 02:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
JJ_Gittes Offline
Wiseguy
JJ_Gittes  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
So dead hooker=horse's head.


Oddly enough, that parallel didn't occur to me - spot on.

Geary was an arrogant, bigoted crook, but he wasn't an idiot. After the shock wore off, he'd have realised what really happened, that there was absolutely nothing he could do about it, and that if he tried, scandal would be the least of his worries.

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: dontomasso] #627674
01/03/12 03:15 PM
01/03/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
TB's suggestion is not that far fetched given the mentality in 1978. In those days regardless of how much womanizing Geary did (and apparently he was quite open about it...note his comment in front of all the pezzanovante in Havana about wanting one of those red headed Yolanda's) the press would never have written about it, and it would have re-told the story of his "abduction." If it happened in this day and age I don't think he would have been able to pull it off.



Very true, dt. The media routinely gave politicos a pass on all their womanizing. During one of FDR's trips to Warm Springs GA, he had the train detour to Flemington NJ so he could dally with his mistress, Lucy Rutherford. Eighty reporters were on the train--nobody reported it. She, not Eleanor, was with him when he died. JFK, the second-greatest sexual athlete of the 20th century, got passes every time even though every reporter knew what he was up to. Now we hear about everything--even Bill Clinton having Peyronie's Disease. sick


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #627684
01/03/12 03:49 PM
01/03/12 03:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

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Posts: 15,029
Texas
Regardless of the press, Geary could not risk any exposure of what would be his perceived complicity in someone's death. It's risk we're discussing here. And that's just regarding elections. One must also consider the effect on his position within the Senate, his ability to co-sponsor or find co-sponsors for legislation, committee chairmanships, Also, don't forget that, as someone has already posted, he no doubt figured out just the kind of people he is dealing with.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #627699
01/03/12 04:36 PM
01/03/12 04:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
TB's suggestion is not that far fetched given the mentality in 1978. In those days regardless of how much womanizing Geary did (and apparently he was quite open about it...note his comment in front of all the pezzanovante in Havana about wanting one of those red headed Yolanda's) the press would never have written about it, and it would have re-told the story of his "abduction." If it happened in this day and age I don't think he would have been able to pull it off.



Very true, dt. The media routinely gave politicos a pass on all their womanizing. During one of FDR's trips to Warm Springs GA, he had the train detour to Flemington NJ so he could dally with his mistress, Lucy Rutherford. Eighty reporters were on the train--nobody reported it. She, not Eleanor, was with him when he died. JFK, the second-greatest sexual athlete of the 20th century, got passes every time even though every reporter knew what he was up to. Now we hear about everything--even Bill Clinton having Peyronie's Disease. sick


At the time of Clinton's escapads, I remember hearing report fro a reliable reorter that EVERY president since FDR except Truman and Carter had extraamarital affairs.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: dontomasso] #627815
01/04/12 10:57 AM
01/04/12 10:57 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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The Last Woltz  Offline
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Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
TB's suggestion is not that far fetched given the mentality in 1978. In those days regardless of how much womanizing Geary did (and apparently he was quite open about it...note his comment in front of all the pezzanovante in Havana about wanting one of those red headed Yolanda's) the press would never have written about it, and it would have re-told the story of his "abduction." If it happened in this day and age I don't think he would have been able to pull it off.



Very true, dt. The media routinely gave politicos a pass on all their womanizing. During one of FDR's trips to Warm Springs GA, he had the train detour to Flemington NJ so he could dally with his mistress, Lucy Rutherford. Eighty reporters were on the train--nobody reported it. She, not Eleanor, was with him when he died. JFK, the second-greatest sexual athlete of the 20th century, got passes every time even though every reporter knew what he was up to. Now we hear about everything--even Bill Clinton having Peyronie's Disease. sick


At the time of Clinton's escapads, I remember hearing report fro a reliable reorter that EVERY president since FDR except Truman and Carter had extraamarital affairs.


Yes, politicians are like pro athletes - infidelity is part of their culture. According to some biographers, LBJ was little more than a serial rapist.

Back on topic, I can't imagine Geary getting into a PR war with the Corleones. Aside from the personal danger he'd be in, the risk would be far greater than the reward.

His squeaky-clean image would be ruined and the newspapermen on the Corleones payroll certainly would have gotten the dirt on Geary all over the press. Going along with the Corleones cost him the opportunity to squeeze Michael but kept his career and liberty (after all, there was a murdered girl) intact.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: The Last Woltz] #627871
01/04/12 04:38 PM
01/04/12 04:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Another thought about Geary is that in his drugged up state he gave Tom way too much information. Not only did he had been with this particular girl before, but that he was into playing some kind of kinky "game."


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Turnbull] #627910
01/04/12 08:16 PM
01/04/12 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

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New York
Wasn't that all kind of obvious, though? Since Fredo owned the place, they knew he was a frequent customer. Also, she couldn't exactly tie herself up and then stab herself. Was he really giving away any big secrets there??


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Geary's defense? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #627965
01/05/12 11:39 AM
01/05/12 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Just that he'd played the "game" before.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Geary's defense? [Re: The Last Woltz] #632919
02/03/12 01:00 PM
02/03/12 01:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
V
VitoC Offline
Capo
VitoC  Offline
V
Capo
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Stewartstown, PA
Originally Posted By: The Last Woltz
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
TB's suggestion is not that far fetched given the mentality in 1978. In those days regardless of how much womanizing Geary did (and apparently he was quite open about it...note his comment in front of all the pezzanovante in Havana about wanting one of those red headed Yolanda's) the press would never have written about it, and it would have re-told the story of his "abduction." If it happened in this day and age I don't think he would have been able to pull it off.



Very true, dt. The media routinely gave politicos a pass on all their womanizing. During one of FDR's trips to Warm Springs GA, he had the train detour to Flemington NJ so he could dally with his mistress, Lucy Rutherford. Eighty reporters were on the train--nobody reported it. She, not Eleanor, was with him when he died. JFK, the second-greatest sexual athlete of the 20th century, got passes every time even though every reporter knew what he was up to. Now we hear about everything--even Bill Clinton having Peyronie's Disease. sick


At the time of Clinton's escapads, I remember hearing report fro a reliable reorter that EVERY president since FDR except Truman and Carter had extraamarital affairs.


Yes, politicians are like pro athletes - infidelity is part of their culture. According to some biographers, LBJ was little more than a serial rapist.


Who are these "some biographers"? I never heard anything about LBJ being a rapist. Even Robert Caro, a biographer of Johnson who is highly critical of him, has never said that.


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!

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