This is a big theme that is constant in the movies that I haven't seen mentioned a lot on the boards.

I also believe it is a common contradiction in both the characters in the movie -- and the Mafia as well.

The Mafia will tell you that someone is killed in order to advance business or make more money. That it's a business move... not personal. Mike often said the same thing throughout the trilogy as well.

But more times than not it is a personal move. Or both personal and business.

What does everyone think? Looking back, only a few deaths are classified as strictly business. The death of Fanucci, Moe Green, Cuneo, and Stracci seem like business moves.

But every other death in the trilogy stems from being personal... or business and personal.

What does everyone else think?

It's been a while since this topic came up. But my short answer is: It's usually a combination of business and personal. Michael assured Sonny, Tom and the caporegimes that his plan to kill Sollozzo was "business, not personal," and he made a logical case why he--technically a "civilian"--would have a good chance for success. But he also seethed with personal motivation to protect his father and to avenge himself on McCluskey for breaking his jaw (the novel describes a "delicious icy chill" that went through Michael). You might say almost the same about the killings of Carlo and Fredo. The "business" reason was never to give a traitor a pass. Hagen explains this to Kay very well near the end of the novel, but the short explanation is that gratitude is the shortest-lived of human emotions, and that a forgiven traitor will be a danger to the family for as long as he's alive. But it's impossible to separate the personal--Michael's need for revenge--from both killings.

To me "business" implies a real need. If there is no real need, it is personal.

Solozzo + McCluskey = business
Five families = business
carlo = personal
Tessio = business
Fanucci = business
ciccio = personal
Roth = business
Fredo = personal
Pentangeli = personal

I have left the GF3 murders, I haven't really analyzed them or particularly care.

I have to disagree.

Carlo set up Sonny to be assasinated, and Fredo betrayed the family, and set Michael up for a possible hit. To show strength, the family had to take proper revenge. Business.

Ciccio killed Vito's Mother and would have killed Vito if he knew he had lived. Business.

Pentangeli killed himself. That was so he could keep his honor and preserve his family. Business.

We skipped over one of the most crucial deaths in the movie, Hyman Roth. Since Roth and Michael's relationship throughout the movie was always based on business, you would think that Roth's death would be business as well... but I don't think that's the case.

Michael said "Roth thinks he'll live forever," and whether or not Roth was playing up his sickness, Roth was getting old and wasn't going to live much longer. Plus, he was sought by the law when he returned to the U.S. and probably would have lived the rest of his life in prison or under some kind of supervised program. At that point he wasn't really a threat to Michael. But Michael goes to the length of sending one of his guys on a suicide mission to kill Roth. That's pretty personal to me. I think there is nary an ounce of business present in that killing.

We could spend another 3 pages worth of discussion on whether sending Rocco on the suicide mission was business or personal so I will leave that alone.

Ciccio was totally powerless, old and weak when Vito killed him. I doubt if he could have killed Vito, who was in his prime and quickly rising in the crime business.

Hi, all. I'm new to the board - this is my first post - but here's my 2 cents...

The death of Ciccio was 100% personal - Vito was setting a personal vendetta. Yes, he might have been clearing the way for his olive oil importing to America, but it seems obviuos to me that this was payback for the murder of his family.

I agree with Death By Clotheshanger - Hyman Roth was personal, too. It was made clear in the boathouse scene with Tom, Al and Rocco that Roth was no longer a serious threat and "on the run". Michael could never let an enemy off the hook, on principle that they were his enemy.

I also agree that often the line between business and personal are blurred. As a matter of fact, I think there are very few purely "business" murders in this story. That could be seen as yet another key to Michael's ethical fall - he couldn't seperate the two.

Glad to join the board!

Glad you're here! Welcome!

I've come to the conclusion that there is no difference. This is the LIFE they've chosen and it's their way of justifying, defending, and rationalizing a morally bad act and presenting it as a business decision. Perhaps that as much as anything makes EVERY decision a PERSONAL decision.

Ultimately, regardless of what WE think their BUSINESS is, the simple fact is that their BUSINESS is their own self-preservation. Staying alive, staying out of jail, using their Sicilian cunning to stay a step ahead of their competition -- the cops and the robbers -- that's their business, which ultimately makes EVERY decision a PERSONAL decision.

It's personal. It's all personal.

tony b.

I think that's what it comes down to. Murdering someone, or ordering them to be murdered -- is a very personal thing -- no matter what the reason or relationship is.

Killing Roth was very much in everybody's best business interest (well, probably not Rocco's)

Roth knew way too much - and was certainly not bound by any notion of Omerta...he could put Michael and others in prison or the chair just to save his own hide.

Well, put, YoTonyB! Agreed.

Didn't Roth try to have Michael Killed? I'd say that was personal.

Accidents dont happen to people who take accidents as personal insults

Despite what Mike says, His killings of Sollozzo and McCluskey was personal, The turk for what he did to the don, and McCluskey for the broken jaw

sonny and michael's "business not personal" exchange in the movie is often misunderstood.

people seem to think that this means that you must emotionally distance yourself whenever you do a hit, in order for it to be "professional." this is not the case.

what michael and sonny are talking about is planning a specific hit. even when you hate someone as much as Michael hates McClusky and the Turk, when you plan out a hit you must be stone cold professional. the decision must make sense from a business standpoint even if the hit itself is laced with vendetta or emotion

obviously Mike has personal feelings but if hitting the Turk would have hurt the family, or if they would have had to wait years to get the Turk for the sake of the family business... then Mike would have been willing to do that... as a business decision.

"it's business not personal" has to do with how you plan and carry out a hit. obviously many of the hits in Godfather are personally motivated but only executed when it makes sense from a business standpoint.

a good comparison is how Michael and Sonny handled Carlo. This rat's been beating on their sister and obviously both hate this bastard equally. however, Sonny takes this personal and acts rashly and ends up on dead on the freeway. for mike however, it's a business decision to bide his time, keeping Carlo close and getting all the 411 he needs from him before he arranges to wack him.

For Michael, there was no distinction.

See page 145 in the paperback edition of the novel, for a scene that takes place after the decision is made that Michael will kill Sollozzo and McCluskey....

Tom says to Michael:

You shouldn't let that broken jaw influence you. McCluskey is a stupid man and it was business, not personal.

Michael's response is too long to quote in it's entirety, but it's one of the best passages in the book, I think. Michael starts off by saying:

Tom, don't let anyone kid you. It's all personal, every bit of business. Every piece of shit that every man has to eat every day of his life is personal. They call it business. OK. But it's personal as hell.....

That segment sums it all up for me

Take it a step further:
All of Michael's efforts to "legitimize" his operations in GF II and III were business in the sense that he wanted to operate in the open, have something to pass on to his heirs, put the violent side behind him. But he also had an overwhelming personal need to be considered not only "legitimate" but a pillar of the community, a captain of industry--to have personal status as well as a legitimate business.

It's all business, whether it's personal or not.

If it was personal, why didn't he whack Kay after the abortion incident? (Dang, he should have whacked her!)

He did whack her. Right in the kissa.

Mother of his children...aren't there rules about that?