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Michael's M.O. #578639
08/04/10 02:51 PM
08/04/10 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
In I and II Michael uses the same techniques to get people he suspects of treachery to confess before he does them in. Unlike Sonny, who had Paulie whacked because he suspected (and probably rightly so) without getting him to admit it, Michael
always got a confession. He did it with Roth and Fredo, in II and in I with Carlo and indirectly Tessio. I think Michael suspected Tessio would be the traitor all along because when Tessio gives himself away by telling Michael he can arrange a meeting on his turf, Tom says he always thought the traitor would be Clememza, but Michael says no, it was the smart move and Tessio was always smarter. Still he did not act on this suspicion until the whole thing played itself out. At the end, even Tessio admitted it to Tom when he asks if he can get him off the hook for old time's sake. I doubt Sonny would have that kind of patience.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: dontomasso] #578640
08/04/10 03:03 PM
08/04/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets Offline
Underboss
getthesenets  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
The book mentions and notes that the other men who were with him saw it as a "sign of weakness" that Mike asked Carlo to admit that he had helped to set Sonny up.


I don't remember who the men in the room were but it was written that "Mike showed that he was not quite the man that the Don was" by asking for a confirmation of what was as evident as possible. They viewed as Mike not being fully sure of himself and his judgment.


I think both Mike and Sonny had strengths and weaknesses that the Don didn't.

Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: getthesenets] #578641
08/04/10 03:22 PM
08/04/10 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I think Mike was cautious, but I also think he had a sadistic side to him and he rather enjoyed watching his enemies squirm.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: dontomasso] #578651
08/04/10 04:08 PM
08/04/10 04:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
"Get out of my sight"....

I think that must be the coldest line in the trilogy...


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: Lilo] #578656
08/04/10 04:54 PM
08/04/10 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Michael was following in his father's footsteps. Vito used a similar technique with Bonasera by getting the undertaker request that Vito be his friend.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: olivant] #578717
08/05/10 12:43 PM
08/05/10 12:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,523
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,523
AZ
Some of us here have puzzled over Michael's requiring Carlo to confess. Some have said that it was almost a "moral" thing: Michael had to be sure--to hear it from Carlo--before he had him whacked. I doubt it. I think it made for a great bit of drama, in the novel and especially the film.

In the novel, Michael says he doesn't want to see Tessio at all. Tom was the bad news deliverer, and once again, we had a nice bit of drama. Frankie had already "confessed" by appearing before the Senate. His suicide was a quid pro quo for the safety and well being of his family. IMO, Michael was not just demanding vengeance--he was protecting himself. Although Frankie's credibility was finished, the FBI wasn't going to give him a free ride forever. They'd have pressed him to give more info that they could have used to build a case against Michael and/or Tom, Rocco and Neri over time.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: olivant] #578721
08/05/10 12:55 PM
08/05/10 12:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets Offline
Underboss
getthesenets  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
Originally Posted By: olivant
Michael was following in his father's footsteps. Vito used a similar technique with Bonasera by getting the undertaker request that Vito be his friend.



?????

Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: dontomasso] #578726
08/05/10 01:55 PM
08/05/10 01:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
I think Mike was cautious, but I also think he had a sadistic side to him and he rather enjoyed watching his enemies squirm.


I don't believe that any side of Michael was 'sadistic'. I feel that from the moment he lost Appolonia, a certain degree of numbness took over, that even Kay couldn't break...and everything he did or said in terms of business from then on was well calculated and devoid of emotion. He neither liked nor disliked the way he dealt with any of his enemies...(even with Fredo, who was not merely an enemy but a traitor which in a way is worse)...he just percieved it as what needed to be done to protect 'The Family'.

The one kindness he showed in ordering that Fredo be unharmed while their mother was alive...had nothing to do with 'business', nothing to do with Fredo. It was for his mother (albeit via the insistence of M. Puzo).

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: AppleOnYa] #578730
08/05/10 02:17 PM
08/05/10 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
I think Mike was cautious, but I also think he had a sadistic side to him and he rather enjoyed watching his enemies squirm.


I don't believe that any side of Michael was 'sadistic'. I feel that from the moment he lost Appolonia, a certain degree of numbness took over, that even Kay couldn't break...and everything he did or said in terms of business from then on was well calculated and devoid of emotion. He neither liked nor disliked the way he dealt with any of his enemies...(even with Fredo, who was not merely an enemy but a traitor which in a way is worse)...he just percieved it as what needed to be done to protect 'The Family'.

The one kindness he showed in ordering that Fredo be unharmed while their mother was alive...had nothing to do with 'business', nothing to do with Fredo. It was for his mother (albeit via the insistence of M. Puzo).

Apple



I also don't believe that Michael was sadistic. As one can read in the novel more than once, Michael felt a delicious chilliness when dealing with an enemy because he felt he was in control of situations, but he would let his enemy think otherwise in those situations. I also agree that Michael did many things because they needed to be done. In fact, Tom Tells Michael as such just before Michael departs for his meeting with Sollozzo and Micahel agrees with him.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: dontomasso] #578769
08/06/10 12:02 AM
08/06/10 12:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
I think Michael suspected Tessio would be the traitor all along because when Tessio gives himself away by telling Michael he can arrange a meeting on his turf, Tom says he always thought the traitor would be Clememza, but Michael says no, it was the smart move and Tessio was always smarter.


This statement by Michael is almost a contradiction. It wasn't smarter because Michael was going to kill the traitor, so Tessio wasn't smarter because if he was, he wouldn't have been a traitor. A smarter man would have known that Michael was going to eliminate all competition, corruption or traitors.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: MaryCas] #578775
08/06/10 04:54 AM
08/06/10 04:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 20
greece
C
constantino Offline
Wiseguy
constantino  Offline
C
Wiseguy
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 20
greece
In the garden scene, in #1, where Vito speaks to Michael about how to run the buisiness, he stresses that the one who will come for an arrangement meeting would be a traitor. That's why Michael realizes all at the funeral.

The line that "Tesio was the smart one" means, IMO, that he was the one requesting more than the family provided. At that time, with Vito dead and Michael not having left his mark already, it is rational that Tesio thought the Corleones were about to weaken. And as a "smart" guy, approaches the ones he thinks are gonna be the new bosses.


bonasera bonasera.what I've ever done to you to make you treat me so disrepsectfully
Re: Michael's M.O. [Re: getthesenets] #578822
08/06/10 06:43 PM
08/06/10 06:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Originally Posted By: getthesenets
Originally Posted By: olivant
Michael was following in his father's footsteps. Vito used a similar technique with Bonasera by getting the undertaker request that Vito be his friend.



?????


Bonasera wanted Vito's help. Vito could have just given it to him. It was actually a minor request. But before Vito gave him his help, he wanted Bonasera to pronounce his friendship. As the novel says, pronouncing your friendship was one of Vito's big requirements if you wanted his help. Now, it really didn't do Vito much good to have an undertaker state his friendship for Vito, but Vito could be a real SOB when he wanted to and he probably enjoyed having peole obligated to him. Michael did a version of the same thing with Carlo. Call it humiliation or subordination, in either case it was Mike's way of dominating Carlo and further savoring the taste of his revenge.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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