Something I don't understand about the mafiosi in the Godfather movies -- and in real life, for that matter -- is how they can be secure about the safety of their families. For these underworld figures who love their families and want to protect them, you would think the best way of proving that love is for them to get the heck out of the mafia.

In a business where grievances are settled by murder, why the shock and unpreparedness (and I'm thinking of Michael here) when a family member is shot or when your wife and children are placed in the line of fire? This is the business you've chosen! When something violent like this happens, the mobsters are hell-bent on vengeance and completely blame the enemy, when it sounds like a case of contributory negligence to me.

It makes me wonder if one of the cumulative psychological affects of living as a criminal is that the part of one's brain or conscience that accepts responsibility shuts down or becomes impaired. I'm no psychologist, so I don't know if that's accurate; but it's certainly the feeling I get from watching the progression of Michael in the Godfather films. Doesn't he expect there's going to be danger around every corner if he's a mafia don?

Supposedly - and I choose that word carefully - the real life mafia has a rule against harming the members of another's family because they fear that retribution would be too easy.

That's certainly something I was wondering about too, and someone else in another thread gave the same reasoning you did: Go after someone else's family, and that person has all the more reason to come after your family.

What I find interesting is the case of a family member who is also in the "business," like a son or heir. When Sonny is killed, for instance, Vito's grief is as heart wrenching as one would expect it to be if Sonny were just an ordinary law-abiding citizen who was victimized by common criminals. I would think that Vito would have steeled himself for the possibility of Sonny's dying in a violent, untimely way, since Sonny was, after all, the acting head of an underground criminal organization. (But then again, maybe there is no way to "steel" oneself for the eventuality of a child's death.)

Does Vito really not see himself as a "criminal"? Does he actually think he's basically a good person and that the other family heads are "bad"? Does he really think it's Barzini's or Tattaglia's fault that Sonny was killed, and not partly his fault also? Or do you think that in his grief he did place some blame on himself for the life he had chosen?

It seems to me that somewhere along the line the thinking of these mafia figures goes very much awry. They think that harm done to them is unjustified and revenge-worthy, but that harm they do to others is righteous restitution, self-defense, and strictly "business." At least at the end of GF2, Michael does some soul-searching about this way of life. In GF1, I'm less clear on whether Vito does the same.

I think you asked a similar question in another post.

Mafiosi come in all varieties - intelligent, stupid, insipid, creative, brave, etc. So, you get all kinds of self-perception and relative morality. What's the difference between a guy with a family that drinks, gambles, and uses drugs and a mafioso with a family that murders? Both endanger their families.

Keep in mind that we never saw Vito acting in a purely immoral way. We never conected him with the horror that someone like him approbated and facilitated. On the other hand, how could a viwer of GFII not connect Michael with the murder of a prostitute to ensare Senator Geary? Of course, Michael ordering the murder of his brother really separates him from his father.

So, endangering one's family? - I'm just doing my job; it has nothing to do with my family, so leave them alone and I'll leave your's alone. On the othert hand, if the need arises, your family is vulnerable. That's the business we have chosen.

You have a good memory, olivant .

In another thread, I asked if it were true that it's a "rule" or "custom" that a mob boss's family is never harmed. And in that case, I had in mind innocent wives and children. There I received my answer (from you in fact, olivant ): It's not that it's a point of honour to leave the innocents alone; it's that it's a matter of self-interest. If you target your enemy's family, your enemy will likely target yours.

In this thread, I wanted to know why a member of the mafia would be so surprised or shocked or angry if his family is harmed -- particularly a family member who is "in the business." (Although I could have added this into the earlier topic, I didn't want the title to limit the discussion.) Why totally blame the enemy? It's the business they've chosen, so isn't the mafia boss at least partly to blame for his family's endangerment?

Why the double standard that "injury I do to you is justified; injury you do to me is unforgivable"? Do these mafiosi become irrational, or put blinders on when it comes to their own behaviour? Or were they morally (psychologically?) impaired from the start?

Thank you for your contribution on this subject, olivant. That's what I like to see: people's various opinions and their take on the topic. You pointed out that I've lumped all mafiosi and criminals into the same group, when really the answer to why they think and behave as they do largely depends on the individual. I look forward to more opinions.

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In fairness it should be noted that, in the entire trilogy, no "innocent civilian" family memeber is ever killed or targetted, with the possible exception of Kate in the drapes scene (although the primary target there was Michael).

When Sonny is killed, he is killed qua acting Don, not as the Don's son. When Bruno Tattaglia is killed, it is becuase he killed Luca Brasi. All though the movies, the only people who are targetted by hits are those who actually get involved in the family business.

OK, Mary gets killed in Three. But that was an accident; Michael was the main target. Also she was extremely annoying.

One thing i got to say about why they choose the life, people argue that they do it to survive, they can survive with a regular job but they dont want to survive on the mininum, they want to live life to the fullest

Point of clarification -- Tattaglia was NOT chopped as retribution for Luca Brasi. "After the thing at the hospital, Sonny got mad. We hit Bruno Tattaglia at four o'clock this morning."

tony b.

They do it because it's a way to make great money without a 9-5. Plus they get to hurt the people that screw them over. Not to mention that it's also a family tradition for alot of them.

If you remember, Sonny tells Tom that the hit on Bruno cancels out what they did to my father.


Don Cardi

Although it wasn't a "hit" strictly speaking, as has been pointed out several times in the past, an innocent prostitute was murdered in order to trap Senator Geary.

This girl had no family -- nobody knows that she worked there. It's as if she never existed. And that was good enough for Tom Hagen and Sen. Geary because, after all, all that's left is their friendship. And that justifies everything!

tony b.

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... but you better make sure that his wife doesn't suspect these "arrangements" you're making.

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Nah.....I'm like dogs that bark but don't bite! Lately my rule is. "Never with married men". Too much fatigue, too much stress, too much sense of guiltiness. What a bore! If they want me, they'll look for me. With a divorce sentence attached on their forehead, please!

What's all this talk about Don Cardi here?

Have you ladies been talking with my wife behind my back? here with all this talk.


I always tell my wife " Just because I am on a diet, it does not mean that I can't read a menu."


Don Cardi

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DC, you got it all wrong. I'm innocent. I swear I wasn't even sitting at that table!

Sorry to dissapoint you.


Don Cardi