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Fredo's "Good Heart?" #555197
09/16/09 02:43 PM
09/16/09 02:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
In The Godfather and in II, it is often repeated that Fredo has a "good heart," and in the past I and many members here seem to have taken that for granted. What I am wondering is what evidence is there that he had a good heart? When we first see him he is three sheets to the wind at his own sister's wedding, and he obnoxiously tries to plant one on Kay.
He then botches his bodyguard duty by dropping the gun while his father is shot, and is then apparently too shaken up to be of any worth to the family in New York, so he gets shipped to Vegas where he embarasses himself and the family by banging cocktail waitresses two at a time. Then when Mike comes out to tell Moe Green he's finished, Fredo sides with Green against the family. By II he has married a slutty lush, and of course betrays Michael. So I ask where is this "good heart" everyone talks about? To me he was an incompetent boor who didn't even have the spine to keep his wife in line when she was making a fool of herself on the dance floor.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: dontomasso] #555203
09/16/09 03:25 PM
09/16/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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The novel stated that he was good to his parents, but you're right: there's no real evidence of his "good heart" in the film. I think it was a metaphor that people often use in pitying people who have no real competence: he or she has "a good heart."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: dontomasso] #555204
09/16/09 03:25 PM
09/16/09 03:25 PM
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Posts: 59
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Desertwolf Offline
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The famous wedding seen at the beginning of GFI sets the scene of the movie, it gives you in a nutshell what every personality in the movie is like:
- Vito: attending to business
- Tom: faithfully at Vito's side
- Sonny: banging Lucy Mancini
- Fredo: Drunk- unassociated with the business going on
- Michael: "That's my Family, not me"!
- Paulie: declaring that he's for sale - if it was someone else's wedding he would rob the bridal purse.

Fredo's "Good Heart" is not meant literal; its like saying that someone is "Special" if he/she has a low I.Q. .... its the second half of a sentence "Fredo is useless, but he has a good heart".
If you cant find something good to say about someone; you say he has a good heart, or his heart is in the right place, or something as ambiguous.

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: Turnbull] #555205
09/16/09 03:34 PM
09/16/09 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
I think it was a metaphor that people often use in pitying people who have no real competence: he or she has "a good heart."


I think that sums it up best. "He's got a good heart," or "He's a poor soul," are both expressions you'll hear in an Italian household when describing a 30 year old man living at home. It's out of pity, not real affection.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: pizzaboy] #555211
09/16/09 04:01 PM
09/16/09 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Good points by everyone, but I recall some theory floating around that held that the three sons each had taken different qualities from their father, and what Fredo took was the "good heart." But one does say things about people who are otherwise useles things like "he means well," even if he does not, I guess. But in II Michael said Fredo has a "good heart" but that he was "weak and stupid" so its not like he had nothing unkind to say. And of course there's Vito's wonderful non comment when he tells Mike he knew Santino would have to go through all this, and Fredo, well Fredo was uh....." Truth is, Fredo was an embarassment to the family from the get go.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: dontomasso] #555212
09/16/09 04:13 PM
09/16/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
DT, I've posted on more than one occasion that each son took from Vito one major aspect of his personality. I think those aspects are pretty obvious. Without the provocations, Vito would have remained a good natured citizen. That good nature was evident in the way both the novel and film portray his relationships with some people. Fredo inherited a good portion of Vito's good nature. The novel says that he was the kind of son that every Italian family prayed for and I think the film does a good job of displaying that initially. But, the Corleones were a crime family. They murdered. It's against that standard that I think you are assessing Fredo as "an embarassment", right?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: olivant] #555219
09/16/09 06:53 PM
09/16/09 06:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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New Jersey
Fredo was a simpleton, a weak link and the Family knew it, but considered harmless until it was discovered that he had plotted w/ Roth against Michael. Even that indefensible act (for which he deserved to die) stemmed from jealousy & stupidity and not an outright desire for Michael to be harmed. (Which means he did NOT open the drapes.)

Incidentally, if I recall correctly it was only his siblings, Michael & Connie who referred to him as 'sweet' and having a 'good heart'. And withing the family itself (business aside), I think Fredo was the 'sweet', not too bright but well meaning member. I always find it amusing when in the final GFII flashback he actually offers his hand in congratulation to Michael for enlisting in the Marines...completely oblivious of the effect it has just had (and will have) on the rest of the family.

That handshake IS Fredo. Had he not been born into the Mob Family atmosphere, he probably would've ended up the nice Italian guy making pizza's up the corner.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: dontomasso] #555220
09/16/09 07:35 PM
09/16/09 07:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Original geschrieben von: dontomasso
banging cocktail waitresses two at a time.

So he had a big heart.


Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: AppleOnYa] #555223
09/16/09 07:47 PM
09/16/09 07:47 PM
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Posts: 59
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Desertwolf Offline
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AppleOnYa,
Very perceptive point with the handshake comment, it does say a lot.
A bit of a stereotype with the pizza though... just kidding!

On Pizza, my biggest shock ever was in 1992, having grown up on Pizza Hut, was when I visited Italy for the first time; I went to a pizzeria, thinking I am at the birthplace of Pizza, this would be "the it" pizza.... What a shock it was to get this semi-roundish thin, burnt edges, thing... with tomatoes and cheese unevenly thrown on it.
Pizza as we know it has nothing to do with Italy... pure American product.

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: Desertwolf] #555226
09/16/09 08:11 PM
09/16/09 08:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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New Jersey


Ok, then...he would've been a baker, like Enzo!!

(But I bet he wouldn't have been able to look as tough on those hospital steps...!!)


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: AppleOnYa] #555230
09/16/09 08:51 PM
09/16/09 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 59
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Desertwolf Offline
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An Italian man named Enzo produced a much more beautiful product: Ferrari!

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: AppleOnYa] #555235
09/16/09 09:37 PM
09/16/09 09:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
I always find it amusing when in the final GFII flashback he actually offers his hand in congratulation to Michael for enlisting in the Marines...completely oblivious of the effect it has just had (and will have) on the rest of the family.

...and let's not forget: he even excused the Japs for attacking on Pop's birthday... wink


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: Turnbull] #555245
09/16/09 10:46 PM
09/16/09 10:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
...and let's not forget: he even excused the Japs for attacking on Pop's birthday... wink


Well, they didn't know...


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: Sicilian Babe] #555252
09/16/09 11:01 PM
09/16/09 11:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
When demeaning Fredo keep in mind that Sonny thinks the Japs dropped bombs puposely because it was Pop's birthday and it was Michael who actually joined the Marines and, thus, ignored effects at the time and in the future. So, who among these protagonists is not oblivious?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: Desertwolf] #555278
09/17/09 09:24 AM
09/17/09 09:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Desertwolf


Pizza as we know it has nothing to do with Italy... pure American product.


Too much Pizza Hut my friend. The pizza in Italy is made in wood burning ovens and it is far superior to Pizza Hut. It is a myth that Pizza was invented in the U.S. It was "invented" in Naples during the Roman Empire. American GI's tasted it in WWII and it was reinvented here with the inedible thick crusts and toppings like bacon and pineapple.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Fredo's "Good Heart?" [Re: dontomasso] #555416
09/18/09 08:53 PM
09/18/09 08:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 59
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Desertwolf Offline
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Desertwolf  Offline
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I agree, but the pizza that went all around the world is unfortunately the Pizza Hut and Papa Jones. Like I said; the modern pizza is an American "product', though an Italian "invention".


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