not sure if they mentioned this in the movie - but when did Tom Hagan become the 'adopted' son of Vito?

It's briefly mentioned by Michaelto Kay after he introduces her to his brother Tom HAGEN. But no details are provided.

You really should read the novel to get a better detailed insight to the many things that are breifly or not even mentioned in the movie. There are really some excellent sub stories in the novel.

Perhaps it's also time for you to watch the movie once again.

Don Cardi refers especially to the Dr. Jules sub story. You'll be excited

yea, you're probably right about reading the novel. i've been putting it off for many years.

so i'm guessing that the novel has the specific details on when and how Tom Hagen becomes the adopted son?

Tom was never adopted. The novel does tell the story about how Tom came to live in the Corleone household and became part of both Corleone families.

Without ruining it for our friend here who has yet to read the novel, the Neri story is an excellent story as well as the Bocchiccio / Michael story. And both the young Sonny and the Luca Brasi stories are also very entertaining.

Correct, wasn't the explanation given that Vito did not want Tom to shame his family name by formally adopting him or something to that effect? Nevertheless, Tom was 'adopted' in all but name.

No, there was no explanation about why Vito never legally adopted tom except that his reminder to Tom not to forget his parents was as if he were reminding himself.

I inferred from that line that Vito would have considered adopting Tom as being disrespectful toward Tom's parents.

Another possible reason: Adoption is a legal process, involving background checks on the adoptive parents, etc. Although Vito "had all the judges in New York in his pocket," it would still involve creating a case, a paper trail, etc., that would constitute unnecessary exposure for Vito.

I seem to remember something in the novel about Vito telling Tom to keep his name and be proud of his own heritage. Besides, even if he had been adopted and his name was Tom Corleone, would it have made him a better wartime consigliere?

Hmmm...you raise an interesting point. We've often speculated that Tom could never have taken over the family because he was "Irish" (as well as not being a wartime consigliere). But if Vito had adopted him, would he have been more acceptable to the caporegimes and the other families?

Possible. Between the time Sonny dies and Michael returns, I would imagine that Tom was at the height of his power. I would imagine that he ran most of the day to day operateions and spared Vito the trouble of dealing with anything other than "need to know" issues. When Michael returns, we learn that he was groomed by Vito for a year before he proposed to Kay, and
this grooming continued for some time after that. Certainly Tom had the respect of the caporegimes...Tessio even thought Tom might have the power to get him "off the hook" for his treachery.
I would go so far as to say that a big part of the way Michael treated Tom was to "keep him in his place." If he had been an adopted son he might have been next in line to Sonny, and aranoid as Michael could be its possible he saw Tom as some kind of threat to his need for absolute power.

I agree that it's a possible scenario. But there could be a different interpretation:

When Tom told Vito that Sonny'd been killed, Vito said: "This war ends now...I want you to arrange a meeting with the heads of the Five Families..." So, Vito got off his sick bed and got back in charge as soon as Sonny was gone. And his first action was to ask for a truce--to alleviate the pressure on the Family, and to prepare for getting Michael home. A possible inference is that Vito knew Tom could not carry the family forward without Sonny or himself in charge. Another is that, although Vito knew Sonny was "a bad Don," he may have held Tom in some way negligent in Sonny's assassination.

With Vito off his sick bed, I'm guessing Tessio and Clemenza gravitated back to him. Tom may have, as you suggest, done some filtering of the issues that Vito had to decide. But I think Tom's greatest influence was with Sonny--and it diminished when Sonny died.

I agree with you TB... but I also believe that, although Vito felt as though Tom was negligent in regards to Santino, there was another reason behind his "getting back in early"... Vito knows Tom is not a don. He just doesn't trust Tom with his "baby", his pride and joy, his living, his family's well-being, his "Family".

I always thought it funny that neither Clemenza nor Tessio were even considered to lead in the interim of Vito's sickness. Isn't this how it works usually (although i'm not well-versed in this sort of thing, I believe this is how Gotti took over as don of his Family)?

bottom line... regardless of the reasoning behind it... Tom just wasn't "built for it".

As long as Sonny was in charge, and Vito was alive, T&C had to treat Sonny as acting boss. One or the other might have made a move for the Donship after Sonny died, rather than see Tom as acting boss--which might have caused a huge, destructive rift in the family. That may have been another reason why Vito got off his sick bed as soon as Tom told him the bad news.

Gotti engineered the assassination of his predecessor, Paul Castellano. He did it by first lining up support from fellow members of the Gambino hierarchy who were also fed up with Big Paul. He also selectively shmoozed bosses of other Mob families before and after the assassination.


I agree.

Neither Tom nor Sonny were "built for it."

I believe that Vito recognized Sonny's shortcomings long ago, and groomed Tom to compensate for them (making Tom overly cautious and conciliatory in contrast to Sonny's hotheadedness and inclination to violence). Vito planned to have them succeed him as a team.

I believe that Vito realized after his return from the hospital that the plan was not working, but hoped S & T could hold things together long enough for Vito to recover and bring Michael into the fold to support Sonny and Tom.

Sonny's death made this impossible, forcing Vito to get better fast, end the war, and accelerate the process of bringing Michael home.

I agree with everything you posted, LW. But I don't think it's certain that Vito intended to bring Michael into the family business as his successor, or as Sonny's second-in-command. If Sonny had lived and held the fort until Vito recovered, Vito may have worked to bring Michael back to America, to finish college, to be a lawyer, and to work to legitimize the family.

Two points:

A telling line left out of the movie but in the saga is in the scene when Michael first comes home and tells Vito that his giving in on the drug issue could be construed as a sign of weakness. Vito corrects him and he says is IS a sign of weakness, so however the family was being run, they had a sick Vito who lacked the necessary stamina, and Tom and the Capo Regimes trying to hold it together. SO however things were run after Sonny's death the family was certainly not gaining strength.

As for the point about what would have hapened to Michael if Sonny lived, that's a tough one. I think Michael with his
"I'm with you Pop" and his murder of Sollozzo and McCluskey "crossed the Rubicon" and could never go back to become a lawyer or a Senator. Not shown in the movie is how someone else took the rpa for what Michael did, but I don't think anyone really believed it as witnessed by the questioning of Michael years later in the Senate hearing. He was way too mobbed up to hold public office. Besides, Hagen was already there as a lawyer, so what role Michael would play with SOnny alive is tricky. My best guess is that he would come into the family business and use his guile, cunning and intelligence to maneuver Sonny to do his bidding without Sonny realizing it.
Additionally Sonny being the loose cannon that he was there was a good chance he'd have done something else to get himself killed anyway.
Also, had he lived and Michael returned even Vito could have put Michael in charge of the family business and move Sonny into the background as consigliere or co-consigliere. He could say his affair with Lucy Mancini and the birth of Vincent Mancini was an infamnia for which he had to be punished.

Vito definitely looked weakened in that scene, and the family was not gaining strength. But Vito had to appear weak in order to gain the truce and agreement that would enable him to bring Michael home. And, as we saw, Michael continued the "weak" look--until the Great Massacre of 1955 put the Corleones back on top again.


Logic is on your side, dt. But, in the vein of "difficult, not impossible":
As we know from the novel, the Bocchicchios created a plausible alibi for Michael re. the Sol and Mac murders. Once back in America, Michael could have finished college and law school. He'd then run for Congress in Vito's old stamping grounds in Little Italy, where the Corleone name and political influence would be an asset. A smart guy like Michael would compile a solid record and many political alliances in the House, while making sure he kept his family ties way in the background: Kay, si, Vito and Sonny, no.

Running for the Senate or the Governorship would be more difficult. Prejudice against Italians, combined with his family background, would work against him big-time. But it's possible that Michael could project a popular image, label the accusations as "bigotry," and buy off or intimidate his opponents. If he won a Senate seat or the Governorship, then I believe he'd act on Vito's long-standing desire to "legitimize" the Corleone business. Michael would work to legalize gambling, either nationwide or in New York, thus channeling the Corleones' dominance of illegal gaming into legitimate casinos and sports-betting outlets. He'd also channel Vito's union strongholds into his own political machine, and use his influence with labor to broker support from other politicians: "Vote for my gaming bill and I'll make sure the unions contribute to your re-election campaign and turn out members to vote for you."
A longshot, but just barely possible...

I base my assumption that Vito intended to bring Michael back into the family business largely on a couple of clues from the film:

1. Vito's anger and disgust upon hearing that Michael killed McCluskey and Sollozzo. His reaction shows that Vito realizes his dream of Michael becoming "Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone" is dead.

2. Vito's comment that Sonny was a bad Don. While he says this after Sonny's death, he surely came to that conclusion much earlier (perhaps upon hearing about the retaliatory hit on Bruno Tattaglia). He also seems rather lukewarm to Tom's skills as consigliere.

Between the dissolution of his dreams for Michael's legitimate future and the succession problems facing the Family, it seems reasonable to think that Vito envisioned Michael returning to pull the strings behind Sonny and Tom.

We all may realize that we will die some day, but few of us can really visualize a world without us in it. Vito was no exception. He wanted Michael in a legitimize business or position, but only as Vito defined legitimate. Vito wanted Sonny as his successor (simply, primogeniture). Thus, Vito would have best of both worlds.

I'm not sure about this because of the act that Vito took Tom aside to tell him "I never thought you were a bad consigliere, I thought Santino was a bad Don, rest in peace." But then again Vito did acceed to Michael's wish that Tom not be a part of the 1955 Massacre becaue he was not a wartime consigliere.

Going back to TB's hypothesis for a political career for Michael, I agree he could have made it to congress and then gerrymandered a district that could have kept him there for life. This may have been enough for him to conrol powerful committees and build a machine in New York City and State that could, through surrogates help the Corleones in numerous ways.
I don't think Michael could win NY .. because of the prejudice. He wouldnt get a vote north of Westchester County.

Right about the Massacre. Plus, "I never thought you were a bad consigliere" is hardly a ringing endorsement.



I'm not sure that Michael was electable. It's one thing to vote for a candidate that is the son of a big Mafia chief. It's another to vote for someone accused of the assassination of two men, including a police captain.

Yes, but he had an alibi in the novel.

The whole idea of the son of a Mafia don getting elected to statewide or federal office is a stretch. Despite any alibi, the fact that he was suspected of murder would certainly be one hell of an obstacle to overcome even if he could get past the blood relationship in the first place.

Yes, it is a big stretch. That's why I characterized it as "difficult, not impossible."

But to congress might be pretty easy, and Michael could have wielded huge influence.