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Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? #478739
03/10/08 11:46 AM
03/10/08 11:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 76
Georgia, USA
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DonRobertoCorleone Offline OP
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DonRobertoCorleone  Offline OP
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This may be a bit of a silly question but i never really understood why Roth wanted Mike out in GF2. I kind of thought that since Roth was based loosely on Meyer Lansky, that he must have viewed Mike the same way that Lansky viewed Anastasia and wanted Cuba all to himself. What do you guys think?


DonRobertoCorleone
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: DonRobertoCorleone] #478740
03/10/08 11:56 AM
03/10/08 11:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
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I believe it all ties into the duplicity and double crossing between Roth & Michael. Both tried to keep the other chasing the proverbial carrot to each other's face, then tried to work like crazy to overtake the other behind the scenes. Michael answers your question at the meeting among Hagen, Rocco & Neri toward the end of the film: "He's been dying of the same heart attack for twenty years." It's also answered in Fredo & Mike's discussion: "It was ROTH all along. He acts like I'm his son -- his successor -- but he thinks he's gonna live forever -- and he wants me out."

Roth wanted to lure Michael to Havanna to get his $2 million for their "partnership." When Roth received the $2 million, he tried to kill Michael. Michael was equally adept at hiding his intentions: he had Fredo bring the $2 million to Havana but kept on stalling Roth. With Roth out of the way, Michael would have control over much of Roth's empire.

Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: DonRobertoCorleone] #478741
03/10/08 11:58 AM
03/10/08 11:58 AM
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olivant Offline
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Why would Wal-Mart want K-Mart out? Why would Shell want Exxon out? Money, control, profit, self-aggrandizement. The list goes on.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: olivant] #478745
03/10/08 12:06 PM
03/10/08 12:06 PM
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DonRobertoCorleone Offline OP
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DonRobertoCorleone  Offline OP
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Yeah good points I also thought the revenge factor might be a little at play here. Roth was supposedly close with Moe Greene and perhaps knew that Mike had killed him


DonRobertoCorleone
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: DonRobertoCorleone] #478752
03/10/08 02:17 PM
03/10/08 02:17 PM
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Posts: 19,545
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Turnbull Offline
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Roth wanted Michael out because Michael was trying to force Roth out:
Roth and Vito were partners, but only in the Prohibition booze business, not in gambling--Vito owned New York, Roth owned Nevada and Havana. But Michael was greedy for Roth's holdings. The first deal we see him in after his return from Sicily is to try to force Moe Green out of his hotel and, when Moe resisted, to kill him. By the opening of GFII (late '58) Michael has moved his entire operation to Nevada, owns or controls three hotels, and is making a move on the fourth. He also has designs on Roth's Havana gaming empire. Small wonder Roth felt threatened.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: Turnbull] #478768
03/10/08 02:43 PM
03/10/08 02:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
The Roth-Michael chess game in GF II is one of the best parts of the movie. Roth lures Michael by "allowing" him to move Klingman out, but thinking all along that eventually he will get it all back.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: dontomasso] #478774
03/10/08 02:48 PM
03/10/08 02:48 PM
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olivant Offline
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I always like that hotel room scene where a half-naked Roth tells Michael "I'm bigger than US Steel."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: olivant] #478777
03/10/08 03:02 PM
03/10/08 03:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: olivant
I always like that hotel room scene where a half-naked Roth tells Michael "I'm bigger than US Steel."


I wonder what Mrs. Roth had to say about that.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: dontomasso] #478778
03/10/08 03:05 PM
03/10/08 03:05 PM
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Posts: 15,024
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olivant Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
 Originally Posted By: olivant
I always like that hotel room scene where a half-naked Roth tells Michael "I'm bigger than US Steel."


I wonder what Mrs. Roth had to say about that.


"Yes you are honey. But then again, I'm a big girl ... everywhere."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: olivant] #478786
03/10/08 03:36 PM
03/10/08 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: olivant
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
 Originally Posted By: olivant
I always like that hotel room scene where a half-naked Roth tells Michael "I'm bigger than US Steel."


I wonder what Mrs. Roth had to say about that.


"Yes you are honey. But then again, I'm a big girl ... everywhere."


I thought that was Lucy Mancini


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: dontomasso] #478808
03/10/08 05:23 PM
03/10/08 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
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olivant Offline
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She had Sonny to plug the gap.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why does Roth want Mike out in GF2? [Re: dontomasso] #478813
03/10/08 06:07 PM
03/10/08 06:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,545
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Posts: 19,545
AZ
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
 Originally Posted By: olivant
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
 Originally Posted By: olivant
I always like that hotel room scene where a half-naked Roth tells Michael "I'm bigger than US Steel."


I wonder what Mrs. Roth had to say about that.


"Yes you are honey. But then again, I'm a big girl ... everywhere."


I thought that was Lucy Mancini



Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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