Hi gang!

I'm new to the board, but I've been lurking for a while, enjoying all the great discussions.
I'm from Italy (and I apologize in advance for my far than perfect English), and - of course - a great GF's fan...

I have some questions about Part II which really bother me - and it seems I'm unable to sort them out on my own - so I'd like to hear your opinions about that; please bear with me just for a while...

1. Why, in all nine hells, Hyman Roth is after Michael? I mean, they have great plans together (the business with the Cuban government, and such), so, why attempting to kill Michael in his own house before they can even set for good the aforementioned business? Is it a sort of trasversal revenge for Moe Green? or is it just as Michael says: Hyman Roth believing himself immortal, and not keen to have any interferences in his business? It seems a lame reason, to me, to have Michael killed, and Hyman Roth should have known better, but mabe I just miss a piece of the puzzle.

2. Why, in all the already mentioned nine hells, Roth killed Frankie Pentangeli? Michael explicitly said he would take care of it, so why? Hyman Roth wasn't fool enough not to be aware Michael suspected him for the assasination attempt, so why playing with the fire like that?

3. Do you think Michael already suspected about Fredo's betrayal, when they spoke at the Cuban café - banana daiquiri and all? it seems to me - from Michael's expressions, and the way he questions Fredo at his arrival at Cuba ("Do you already know Johnny ola?", etc), he had some suspects - so why telling Fredo about his plans to have Roth killed? Was it to put Fredo to a test - with the risk to fail his plans, and put his own life at risk?
Just curious, because it seems so very unlikely of Michael.

Thank you for reading all this nonsense...

Flora

Welcome to the boards!

These our your answers

1)Michael was said to be "unfair" with the plans and progress in Cuba so Roth tryed to get rid of the problem

2)It was because Frank was fiting with the (name forgotten) brothers and by the adlibed line "Michael Corleone says Hello!" Frank would think it was Michael, not Roth

3) Michael new it was Roth but didn't know who gave the info away.

I hope this has answered your question other members of the boards will probely have something different or the same to say. Again Welcome!

Benvenut Flora!

It's simple - Roth wanted as much power et al as he could muster.

He wanted to kill Frankie to hurt the Corleones since the Rosatos would then take over more of Frankie's territory.

I find no evidence that Mike suspected anything about Fredo prior to the nightclub.

Benvenuto, Flora!
1. Though Michael says to Fredo, "Roth wants me out," Michael is the one who wants Roth out. Roth and Vito Corleone had been partners, but only in the Prohibition-era booze business. But Michael had been greedily horning in on Roth's Western gambling empire even before Vito died. The first business deal we saw Michael involved in when he returned from Sicily was to push Moe Green, Roth's best friend, out of his Las Vegas hotel; later he had Moe killed because he resisted. By late 1958, when we first meet Hyman Roth, Michael has moved his entire operation to Lake Tahoe, owns three hotels in Nevada, and is about to force Meyer Klingman out of a fourth hotel, owned by Roth and the Lakeville Road Boys. And it's obvious that Michael has designs on Roth's Havana gaming empire. Small wonder Roth feels threatened! Roth has been buying time by pretending he's a kindly elder statesman, in the twilight of his years, who regards Michael as his surrogate son and heir. But he's plotting all along to kill Michael—there isn’t room for both of them.
2. When Michael visited Roth in Florida, he told Roth he blamed Pentangeli for the attack on his home and said he would kill Pentangeli. Instead, he sent Pentangeli to make peace with the Rosato brothers. Roth knew that Michael would never give an enemy a pass. So he assumed that Michael really didn't suspect Pentangeli in the attack on his home--meaning that he might suspect Roth. So Roth ordered the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli to eliminate Michael's main ally in New York.
3. Just before Michael left Tahoe, he told Tom: "Right now, you're the only one I can completely trust." We must take this to mean that he suspected everyone--including Fredo. You were right when you said he looked at Fredo suspiciously several times in Havana. But I don't think Fredo was his top suspect. I believe he was genuinely devastated when Fredo made his fatal slip-up at the Superman show.

Ciao, benvenuta Flora!
Che bello, un'altra Italiana!!! Di dove sei?

If you are a GF fan, sure you found the right place to be!!!!!

I agree that Michael suspected everyone after the attack on his home. I don't necessarily believe Michael put two and two together with Fredo until after the show, but I do believe that Michael was cautious of Fredo because he has always been a family liability.

First of all, thank you everybody for the warm welcome, and for your answers!

Sicilian:
That's another oddity: The Rosato brothers had the order to *kill* Frankie, not to just scare him. it was only by chance that he survived. So why telling him it was Mike who wanted him killed? That makes sense only if one thinks to what happens later (the trial, etc).

Olivant:
That's definitely makes sense.

Turnbull, I think you are right about Michael wanting to get rid of Roth since the very beginning, and not viceversa. At the end of Part 1 as well as all the way through Part II we see Michael putting strong roots into Roth's business. It's hardly a surprise Mike became Roth's stone in the shoes. Thank you for the great analysis!

Yes, I agree with you. Michael had definitely some suspects, but Fredo wasn't the top one - not until the Superman episode, anyway. I loved Pacino's acting in that scene. Terrific.

Ciao!! Che bello, mi sento meno sola!

Io sono Toscana (della provincia di Pisa, per la precisione), e tu?

Ciao Flora, la bella Toscana!

Ciao!
yes, Toscana is beautiful!