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Clemenza's Line #454333
11/30/07 08:27 PM
11/30/07 08:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 11
H
howie789 Offline OP
Wiseguy
howie789  Offline OP
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 11
I still don't know what Clemenza was referring to in GF1 when he goes "the negotiator is playing pinochle, he's happy, they're letting him win"..then he goes "the negotiatior keeps playing until (I forget who he says) comes home safe and sound". What is he referring to?

Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: howie789] #454339
11/30/07 09:44 PM
11/30/07 09:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
 Originally Posted By: howie789
I still don't know what Clemenza was referring to in GF1 when he goes "the negotiator is playing pinochle, he's happy, they're letting him win"..then he goes "the negotiatior keeps playing until (I forget who he says) comes home safe and sound". What is he referring to?


The novel talks about the Bocchicchio clan that was in the business of providing hostages (negotiators) in such situations. While Mike is meeting with Sollozzo, a Bocchicchio is in the Coreleone's hands. If something happens to Mike, the Bocchicchio gets killed, then the Bocchicchios go after Sollozzo.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: olivant] #454489
12/01/07 01:37 PM
12/01/07 01:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,539
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Posts: 19,539
AZ
 Originally Posted By: olivant
 Originally Posted By: howie789
I still don't know what Clemenza was referring to in GF1 when he goes "the negotiator is playing pinochle, he's happy, they're letting him win"..then he goes "the negotiatior keeps playing until (I forget who he says) comes home safe and sound". What is he referring to?


The novel talks about the Bocchicchio clan that was in the business of providing hostages (negotiators) in such situations. While Mike is meeting with Sollozzo, a Bocchicchio is in the Coreleone's hands. If something happens to Mike, the Bocchicchio gets killed, then the Bocchicchios go after Sollozzo.


Yes, and this is a perfect example of where an important detail laid out in the novel causes confusion because it wasn't included in the film. Nobody would know what Clemenza was referring to unless they read the novel. The Bocchicchio Family, and the role they played not only in negotiations but in bringing Michael back from Sicily, is one of the best side stories in the novel.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: Turnbull] #455443
12/04/07 10:59 AM
12/04/07 10:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
This brings up a question. The Corleones insisted that they have a negotiator to protect Michael's safety during the Solozzo meeting, but Sollozzo apparently did not do that...why not? Certainly he suspected Michael could do him harm because he had McCluskey frisk him in the car and he briefly frisked Michael after he relunctantly and with suspicion permitted him to go to the bathroom.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: dontomasso] #455469
12/04/07 12:32 PM
12/04/07 12:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
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Berlin, Germany
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
This brings up a question. The Corleones insisted that they have a negotiator to protect Michael's safety during the Solozzo meeting, but Sollozzo apparently did not do that...why not? Certainly he suspected Michael could do him harm because he had McCluskey frisk him in the car and he briefly frisked Michael after he relunctantly and with suspicion permitted him to go to the bathroom.

What do you mean? The Corleones do have a negotiator already. He's playing pinochle with Clemenza's men.

Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: dontomasso] #455473
12/04/07 12:50 PM
12/04/07 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,539
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Posts: 19,539
AZ
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
This brings up a question. The Corleones insisted that they have a negotiator to protect Michael's safety during the Solozzo meeting, but Sollozzo apparently did not do that...why not? Certainly he suspected Michael could do him harm because he had McCluskey frisk him in the car and he briefly frisked Michael after he relunctantly and with suspicion permitted him to go to the bathroom.

Despite having Michael patted down in the car and thrusting his hand in his crotch prior to giving Michael permission to go to the john, Sollozzo fundamentally underestimated Michael. He thought that Michael, a respectable college boy and "civilian," wouldn't have the nerve or the cunning to attempt an assassination, especially with McCluskey at his side.

The novel provides more illumination. After Michael shocks Sonny et al by proposing that he kill S&M, Sonny says, "And now Sollozzo has you figured for the soft touch in the family because you let McCluskey hit you without fighting back and you wouldn't get mixed up in Family fights..."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: Turnbull] #455477
12/04/07 01:00 PM
12/04/07 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Posts: 15,024
Texas
As the novel points out, Sollozzo knew he couldn't ask the Corleones to guarantee his safety.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: olivant] #455506
12/04/07 01:57 PM
12/04/07 01:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
As pointed out in the film, a police captain was considered "untouchable". Nobody had ever considered taking one out, so Sollozzo was convinced of his complete and total safety.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: Sicilian Babe] #455545
12/04/07 04:51 PM
12/04/07 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Still, Sollozzo took many precautions. He tried to conceal the location of the meeting, he had his driver head to New Jersey before the famous U Turn and he had Michael frisked, so he had to think he had some level of vulnerability, even if , say when Michael went to the bathroom someone ame by and hit them. So why would he not have a negotiator, after all he WAS "the hunted one." Maybe he just really was not that clevah.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: dontomasso] #455558
12/04/07 05:39 PM
12/04/07 05:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Still, Sollozzo took many precautions. He tried to conceal the location of the meeting, he had his driver head to New Jersey before the famous U Turn and he had Michael frisked, so he had to think he had some level of vulnerability, even if , say when Michael went to the bathroom someone ame by and hit them. So why would he not have a negotiator, after all he WAS "the hunted one." Maybe he just really was not that clevah.


To quote the novel, Sonny says "The negotiator guarantees Mike's safety. Sollozzo doesn't ask us to guarantee his safety, he knows he can't ask that. No point."

Last edited by olivant; 12/04/07 05:40 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: olivant] #455560
12/04/07 06:19 PM
12/04/07 06:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,539
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,539
AZ
Perhaps one of the reasons was that, considering the mortal riskiness of the Bocchicchios' business, they accepted commissions only from established Mafia families--not from every Tom, Dick and Virgil.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: Turnbull] #455568
12/04/07 06:41 PM
12/04/07 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
Probably.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza's Line [Re: Turnbull] #455645
12/05/07 01:37 PM
12/05/07 01:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Perhaps one of the reasons was that, considering the mortal riskiness of the Bocchicchios' business, they accepted commissions only from established Mafia families--not from every Tom, Dick and Virgil.


Maybe they didn't like Turks


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."


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