No, he's just conversing. He's a little forlorn like anyone would be over having lost so many acquaintences or friends.

Ola's bringing the orange to Michael symbolized that he was representing Hyman Roth from Miami Florida, sort of symbolizing a friendly gesture to Michael on Roth's behalf.

I don't know where you are from Scarfather, but oranges are grown in the state of Florida and it has been a tradition that many Floridians send oranges to their out of state friends.

However, Ola brings Michael that orange and then that evening a hit attempt is made on Michael's life. We later learn that Roth was behind that hit attempt.

So the orange brought by Ola in that scene surely had a double meaning.

I am from NY. Going to Florida in a few weeks.
It is well known that oranges symbolize some sort of tragedy(usually death) so I would think it is more one sided than bringing oranges from Fl just because they are grown there. I believe that Roth sent Ola to tell Michael that all is well with the move and agree to everything because Ola knows whats coming later

I am from NY. Going to Florida in a few weeks.
It is well known that oranges symbolize some sort of tragedy(usually death) so I would think it is more one sided than bringing oranges from Fl just because they are grown there. I believe that Roth sent Ola to tell Michael that all is well with the move and agree to everything because Ola knows whats coming later

My question to you is... how could you just say "no, he's just conversing" - do you know this for a fact or is that you opinion? if so... it should be prefaced with IMO - correct? otherwise please tell how you know for sure. Because later when Roth tells of Moe Green being killed(he could be talking about all the hits on all the families)... so that would lead me to believe that Ola knew as Roth knew...

I always thought that the phrase "...natural or otherwise..." was really droll--a condition of the business they've chosen.

This is off the subject, but I still don't understand how it is that Fredo could say he never met Johnny Ola and be credible.
When Johnny greets Michael he comments that he remembers Tom Hagen from "the old days" in New York. Additionally Fredo spend a lot of time in Vegas with Moe Green, a close associate of Hyman Roth. How could it be he never met Ola through Green?

Of course, Fredo was at home playing w/ dolls or something, I'm sure.

No, Vito took Fredo to important meetings (Fredo was there for the Solozzo meeting, and unlike Sonny he knew enough (or knew too little) to run his mouth. No way Vito would not have introduced his son and his future consigliere to Ola.
Even Pentangeli seems to know a lot about the history between Vito and Roth when he says ...your father did business with him he respected him but he never trusted him. Did everyone meet Ola except Fredo? Was Fredo that stupid to tell Mike he never met him?

dt, you're right: it's highly unlikely that Fredo wouldn't have run into Ola during his years in Vegas.

Do we think Michael is naive for believing that Fredo never bumped into Johnny in Vegas?

I think the I remember Tom from the old days is an example of Roth/Ola trying to play on Mike's sympathies for the old days of when his father was alive.

Something that Roth will do time and time again.

I think it's just an off-hand expression just like the one about Ola made about losing so many acquaintenances over the years to death. I don't read anything into it.

Also, both Vito and Michael knew Fredo's shortcomings and probably kept himout of alot of family business.

Well, obviously, since Al had to introduce himself to Ola,

Well, obviously, since Al had to introduce himself to Ola, Ola must not have been around recently. Al has been around since the massacre of the family heads in '55, probably even earlier. Now it's 58 - at least three years later and Ola has not met Al in the meantime which means he probably has not met with Tom or Mike in the meantime either. So, it makes perfect sense that Ola dealt with Tom back in the old days, not since, and would make the comment he made.

It may have played better if Fredo, in the boathouse scene, had said to Mike : JOHNNY OLA bumped into me in Las Vegas -- and he said that he wanted to talk... instead of saying that he bumped into him in Beverly Hills.

Beverly Hills IS where they bumped into each other. I don't think that Fredo is lying about that. He's some pretty sincere in that scene IMO.

It was an attempt at humor on my part. Fredo going to Vegas to learn the casino business? Now our talking about it being highly likely that Fredo had met Ola years before through Green while under him in Las Vegas? Hence I bumped into him in las Vegas. Maybe FFC should have used Las Vegas instead of Beverly Hills.

When you say that it's well known that oranges are symbolic of death, you are speaking within the Godfather trilogy, correct ? If you are, yes, it's very well known on these boards that the orange became an almost inside joke among Coppola and the Godfather film crew.

Have you read THE GODFATHER LEGACY by Harlan Lebo ? It goes into the orange symbolism in some detail. It's also the definitive book on the trilogy itself.

Exactly DT. If you watch Mike's expression when he says this, then you'll see it kinda "rose his antenae" so to speak.

Fredo denies meeting Ola twice.

First when he brings Michael the 2 million. When Michael says "Johnny Ola" he quickly snaps a glance over at Fredo to see reaction.

I agree there, too: definitely a probing look, much like the one he gave Fredo in the nightclub.
In fact, I believe Michael had laminated motives in bringing Fredo to Havana:
Michael knew that, as long as he kept stringing Roth along on the $2 million, he'd buy time to find the identity of the traitor in his family. That's why he didn't bring the money with him to Havana. He needed somebody to ferry the money to him. He couldn't use Tom because he needed him to run the family in Tahoe. He didn't bring Neri or Rocco because, as he told Tom before he left, "Our people are businessmen--their loyalty is based on that." That left Fredo.

But I think there was more to it than Fredo simply being the most convenient messenger-boy:

Michael was genuinely devastated by Fredo's gaffe at the Superman show. But I don't think Michael ever entirely ruled Fredo out. The two Havana "tests" re. having met Ola were part of it. But right after the Tahoe shooting, Michael tells Tom: "Fredo? He's got a good heart, but he's weak and stupid--and this is life and death." That doesn't mean Michael suspected Fredo of treason at that moment, IMO. But it doesn't mean that he'd entirely eliminated Fredo as having a role in the treason. "Weak and stupid" implies that he could be a tool of the plotters, which is just about what Fredo confessed to when he said, "I swear to God I didn't know it was gonna be a hit." (My view is that he did, but that's been the subject of many threads here.)