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The Hoods #380315
03/30/07 06:30 PM
03/30/07 06:30 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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I started reading the book titled "The Hoods" which is the basis for the movie "Once Upon A Time In America."

This book was written by HARRY GREY who was an ex-hood himself. It's an autobiographical novel based on his life.






From the opening chapter it draws you right in



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #380334
03/30/07 07:48 PM
03/30/07 07:48 PM
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DC and I ordered this book the same day. I started it a few days ago and I have to say, so far so good. I'm really curious as to whether any reference is made to the infamous "opium dream" sequence in the movie. That's the main reason I ordered it. Time will tell, because I refuse to cheat by looking at the final chapters of the book.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: The Hoods [Re: pizzaboy] #380389
03/30/07 08:54 PM
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 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
I'm really curious as to whether any reference is made to the infamous "opium dream" sequence in the movie.



Keep on reading. ;\)



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #380393
03/30/07 09:03 PM
03/30/07 09:03 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
I'm really curious as to whether any reference is made to the infamous "opium dream" sequence in the movie.



Keep on reading. ;\)


Well DC, neither you nor I advocated the whole dream theory in the movie. However, I think if we were wrong, we'll both be big enough men to admit it.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #380412
03/30/07 09:55 PM
03/30/07 09:55 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
I started reading the book titled "The Hoods" which is the basis for the movie "Once Upon A Time In America."

This book was written by HARRY GREY who was an ex-hood himself. It's an autobiographical novel based on his life.






From the opening chapter it draws you right in


Does anyone else consider the movie to be so sad like I do? It makes me sad when I watch it. It's an allegory for life.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Hoods [Re: olivant] #380415
03/30/07 09:59 PM
03/30/07 09:59 PM
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It's a very moving movie, no doubt. I find it to be as much about acceptance and growing older as I find it to be a great gangster movie. It's an epic.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: The Hoods [Re: pizzaboy] #380484
03/31/07 12:29 PM
03/31/07 12:29 PM
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What chapter are you up to in the book PB?



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: olivant] #380487
03/31/07 12:38 PM
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 Originally Posted By: olivant

Does anyone else consider the movie to be so sad like I do? It makes me sad when I watch it. It's an allegory for life.



It is one of my favorite movies. However I agree that it does have a sadness to it. One scene that stands out in my mind which I find very sad is towards the ending when Noodles visits Deborah. The music is perfect in the sense that it conveys the mood of what both Deborah and Noodles are feeling at that point. Leone seems to capture these sad moments throughout the film with some brilliant editing done with the music chosen to be played in those scenes.

No doubt that the movie has a melancholey air to it.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #380961
04/02/07 01:49 AM
04/02/07 01:49 AM
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Lost youth; lost opportunity; the road not taken; what could have been.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Hoods [Re: olivant] #381050
04/02/07 10:47 AM
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 Originally Posted By: olivant
Lost youth; lost opportunity; the road not taken; what could have been.


The book gives you much more insight as to how, why and what caused these kids to choose the path that they chose. Especially with Noodles.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #381325
04/03/07 05:12 AM
04/03/07 05:12 AM
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Now this is a book i want!
I did not realise it was still in print!
Amazon here i come \:\)


I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
Re: The Hoods [Re: Yogi Barrabbas] #383736
04/10/07 11:53 AM
04/10/07 11:53 AM
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Yogi, did you order the book yet?



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #384652
04/13/07 02:40 PM
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As I continue reading this book I am begining to see exactly why Leone's original version of the movie was 6 hours. Although the movie is loosely based on this book, there are many details in the book that are now making me understand certain things that take place in the movie and why they take place.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #384665
04/13/07 03:52 PM
04/13/07 03:52 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
Yogi, did you order the book yet?

No, not yet DC...
It takes me weeks to get round to doing stuff!
I have told my wife that i would like it as a gift for Fathers Day though and she is much more organised and efficient than me \:\)


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Re: The Hoods [Re: Yogi Barrabbas] #384667
04/13/07 04:11 PM
04/13/07 04:11 PM
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I finished it earlier in the week DC. I really have an even greater appreciation for the film now. My questions about the "dream sequence" have been clearly answered, in my mind anyway. I'll let you finish it before we debate it. I'm guessing that the author (Grey) based Noodles on himself because he very much got into his psyche. Without the "contemporary" sequences of 1968 it actually reads almost like good non-fiction. Speaking of which, it's a testament to Leone's brilliance that he envisioned adding the sequences of an aging Noodles. All in all, a very good read that made me want to see the film yet again.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: The Hoods [Re: pizzaboy] #384672
04/13/07 04:34 PM
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 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

I'm guessing that the author (Grey) based Noodles on himself because he very much got into his psyche.


Without getting into any deep discussion of the book until I finish it, just the other day I happened to tell Turnbull that I believe that the book is an "autobiographical novel" by Grey. It seems to me that what he wrote had a ring of truth to it except that he "changed the names and locations to protect the innocent." Earlier in the book he kind of alludes to that fact.

I'll let you know whan I am done with it.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #388865
04/26/07 01:28 PM
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Pizza -

Now I understand why Noodles raped Deborah in the movie.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #388867
04/26/07 01:34 PM
04/26/07 01:34 PM
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Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
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DC, could you shed a spoiler and say why Noodles rapes Deborah?


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Re: The Hoods [Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra] #389141
04/27/07 07:46 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Capo de La Cosa Nostra
DC, could you shed a spoiler and say why Noodles rapes Deborah?


Sure Capo.

Warning, Spoiler:
In the book, Noodles is totally obsessed with Delores ( Deborah in the movie) from when he is a kid. In the book we are also given a more insightful description of Noodles sex life. He is addicted to constantly having sex and is always hiring hookers or picking up woman to bring back to his penthouse hotel room where he resides. You almost feel as though he is trying to find the Delores in these woman. In the book we also see his addiction to opium and how when going to these opium dens he dreams of having Delores (Deborah) for himself. He has these fairy tale opium dreams about he and her.

Delores will not even give him the time of day early in the book. In the movie we are given a slight glimpse of Debroah's (Delores) disdain for Noodles, but we also see that as children she teases him by undressing while fully knowing that he is peeking at her and she aknowledges him from time to time. However in the book if she speaks to him twice as children, it''s a lot. This eats at Noodles. As a young kid he knows that he lives as a lowlife, wearing the same clothing and looking ragged. As a child, Delores totally ignores him in the book.

When they are older Delores is acting and dancing on the stage. Noodles is always going to see her perform on the stage, but she never knows this. This is just another glimse into the obsession that Noodles had with her. Somehow Delores knows that Noodles is mad about her. Finally, without really going into detail, Delores agrees to go on a date with Noodles. As in the movie, he wines and dines her. She becomes more understanding of Noodles and on this date warms up to him. She begins to understand that as a kid, he had a shit life. She holds and squeezes his hand while they are talking, and this gives Noodles the impression that she loves him. So while they are still on this date, he proposes marriage to her. When she realizes that he thinks that she's in love with him, she drops a bombshell on him by telling him that she is in love with another man, is practically engaged to be married, and is moving out to hollywood. (Her real intent of going on this date with him was to tell him that she was leaving for hollywood). It is at that moment that all of the years of pent up fustration in wanting her explodes in Noodles and he violenty tries forcing himself on her, hurting her both physically and mentally. Of course, as in the movie, he is remorseful and regrets what he has done, but it's too late at that point.

In the movie we see that when he is a kid, he likes Deborah. And years later on the date we see that he rapes her. But in reading the book is gives a better understanding as to why he did what he did to her on that date because the book goes much deeper into the obsession that Noodles had with Delores (Deborah in the movie).


Mick, if you love the movie, than you really should read the book.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Hoods [Re: Don Cardi] #389166
04/27/07 09:15 PM
04/27/07 09:15 PM
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Gateshead, UK
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Cheers for that, DC. \:D


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Re: The Hoods [Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra] #411148
07/06/07 09:47 AM
07/06/07 09:47 AM
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For those who haven't read the Hoods, it's available as an ebook for $1 from:

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=33250

The book has 49 chapters and is dedicated to the mob friends of Noodles, M. B. H. & S.

It starts in an East Side school classroom (7th grade) with

Cockeye (a bit simple/dumb)
Max (tall muscular & a wise guy - reading a cowboy/western paperback)
Noodles (clever & imaginative)
Patsy (tough looking)
Dominick (podgy & small - high pitched voice)

Noodles and Max imagine what it would be like if the five of them formed a gang like Jesse James but without horses. Max says: “We'll make a million bucks sticking up banks and then quit.”

Dominick asks "a million for the five of us, Max?".
Max says "Nah a million apiece".
Patsy asks “We gonna quit when we get a million?”
Max: “Yep, we'll quit and move up to the Bronx and be big shots.”

Noodles gets summoned to the Principal's office (Max offers to throw the Principal out of the window if Noodles wants). Noodles's father has been out of work for 3 months and Noodles wants to leave school and start a job. The principal recognises Noodles's potential and wants him to stay on at school.

“I think, with proper guidance, you can still develop into a good and successful citizen. I'll have a social agency look into your case and help your family, so that you can continue your schooling. Keep away from bad companions ... Why not continue and try to be a bookkeeper, possibly an accountant? Don't just go floundering through life without a definite goal. Specialized knowledge is like a sharp knife. It will help you cut your way through the entanglements of life to your goal. To success. You understand what I what I mean?”

Yeh, I knew what he meant, but I played dumb. “Yeh, I'll get myself a big knife,” I said.

The dialogue and descriptions of events are a bit lengthy but reading the book and the screenplay (see below) will clear up many of the questions that viewers of the film may have.

Summary of chapters
Warning, Spoiler:


Chapter

01 - End Of School, Max Patsy Cockeye Dominick together
modern Jesse James, robbing Schwartz Candy Store,
helping Monk, Jake Pipy Goo-Goo, Knife, Peggy & Fanny,
Momma, poverty, Max's uncle, Fat Moe,Fed Reserve Bank,
Dolores, The Professor, Mott Street
02 - Book - Boswell's Life of Johnson
03 - Peggy & Whitey - police bribery
04 - Rolling a drunk
05 - Laundry delivery job - strike breaking
06 - Drugstore heist, death of Dominick
07 - Sent to Jewish home, Cedar Knolls for 18 months
Maxi's uncle dies, Max takes over uncle's funeral business
08 - Taking contracts, forming coalition with Frank,
6 speakeasies, Noodles Bookkeeper, Opium
09 - Dream of the formation of the criminal combination
10 - Turkish Baths
11 - Diamond Heist, Betty
12 - Writing a book, Sex
13 - Nutch and the diamond switch
14 - Oscar the fence, disposing of Nutch's body,
John Doe, Federal Reserve Bank
15 - Cleaning up Peggy's whorehouse
16 - The accidental death of Andrew Moore, Himmelfarb bros
17 - A licence to print money
18 - Noodles father previously a horse thief & smuggler,
money printing machine switched, Broome St speakeasy
to Jake & Co
19 - My disastrous date with Dolores
20 - Feeling Sorry for myself
21 - Helen the singer, picking up a prostitute,
Frank & Dandy Phil
22 - Nude swimming
23 - Getting kitted out
24 - Checking out the casino (1)
25 - Checking out the casino (2), momma, brother
26 - Casino shakedown (1)
27 - Casino shakedown (2)
28 - Casino shakedown (3), 20 bullets in 3 secs
29 - Phil & Fanny
30 - Eden, Fairy Theodore, Eve
31 - Big Mike, Fitz & Jimmy at the Eden
32 - Salvy the Snake, Willie the Ape, Mr Crowning
33 - Impersonating cops, Thespus Detective Agency
34 - The seduction of Eve, rubber falsies
35 - Thespus Detective Agency (1), knockout drops
36 - Thespus Detective Agency (2)
37 - Chicago hit, Eve, taking over the Eden
38 - Our arrest, murder of Salvy, Willie & a stranger
39 - Our release, planning the next job
40 - Disposal of the body of a Supreme Court Judge
41 - Dancing with Betty, John Doe, argument with
Max re payroll heist, split
42 - 2 weeks vacation in Miami with Eve, Max now
with Betty, Combination goods hijacked, Herring's
doublecross
43 - Max wanting to pickle Herring
44 - Max becoming a megalomaniac, throne, casing the
Federal Reserve Bank
45 - Trying to contact Frank, withdrawing bank savings
46 - Momma in a coma in hospital, gave details of Max
& Co's next job to prohibition agents, momma died,
booze, opium, death of Max, Patsy & Cockeye, searching
for our cash
47 - Mendy Muscles & Trigger Mike take me to warehouse
for execution, trick them to take me to Moe's, knockout
drops
48 - Escape to Joeys in chinatown, opium
49 - Leave town


Also there are the following free downloads for those struggling with understanding parts of the film:

http://msb247.awardspace.com/docs/film.txt (dialogue - 60K)

http://msb247.awardspace.com/docs/once.rtf (screenplay - 400K)

and other useful links:

http://msb247.awardspace.com/downloads.htm


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