When Moe Green tells Michael that the "Corleone Family don't have that kind of muscle anymore....and they were being chased out of New York by the other families" what did he mean?

I realize the deaths of Luca and Sonny and the war overall weakened the Corleones, but it would also have weakened the other families. The way Moe talks about Barzini makes you think the Corleones were so weak they were about to fold.

I know in the novel there is extensive discussion about Michael wanting the family to look weak, and how he hid the building of the Neri regime even from Tom --- but sticking to the movie, were the Corleones weaker than the other families by this time? I can see maybe weaker than Barzini, but not the others.
Any thoughts?

I think it was a prevailing thought that the Corleone family appeared weak in the string of events that started with the hit on Vito, like Sollozzo said, "would I be able to get to him 10 years ago?" When Sonny's murder wasn't avenged and the family's control started to shift to Michael, I guess there was some serious underestimation on his qualifications for becoming the head of the the family. Add this to Moe slapping around Fredo and the moving of the Coreleones to Nevada, outwardly it could have been seen as a decline in power?

True, the Corleones were not at the peak of their power, and the other families were chiseling away at them a little. But there is no evidence to support the contention that they were being "chased out of New York."

But keep in mind what he says right after that statement. "I talked to Barzini." I think that's the source of his fatally wrong impression of the Corleone family.

And you know Moe, headstrong, talking loud, saying stupid things. Not smart enough to objectively evaluate the information Barzini is feeding him.

I think that Michael and Vito purposely gave the impression that Michael was a much weaker man than his father. Even Tessio underestimated him, and Tessio was pretty smart. If even the caporegimes believed that Michael was allowing the other families to muscle in on their territories, why wouldn't Moe Greene believe that they were weak and making the move out to Nevada to start over?

Good explanation SB... especially about how they were chiselling Tessio and Clemenza's territories...and they WERE complaioning that pretty soon they would have nothing left to build on. SO maybe they alllowed pthers to think they WERE being run out of New York.

Exactly right SB. And if I might add, I believe that the Corleones really WERE a bit weaker than in the past. Vito and Michael knew this. So while there may have been some truth to their losing SOME power, they used what was partially true to make it appear worse than it was. This bought them some time. It allowed them to re-group, re-build and at the same time see who would remain loyal to them and who would not. It was their way of manipulating this partial truth to their own benfit. Buy some time and then when everything is in place, strike unexpectantly like a thief in the night.

Vito's plan was to train Michael. The more time that he could buy to cultivate Michael, the better it would be in the long run.

I agree with all the above answers. Plus, Moe was an out-of-control, bombastic thug who was, as noted, "headstrong, talking loud, saying styu-pid things..." He'd be prone to gross exaggeration, particularly when provoked. His bombast would be designed to try to intimidate Michael.

Kind of like Bugsy Siegel was in real life.

[quote=Don Cardi
Kind of like Bugsy Siegel was in real life. [/quote]


Yeah, but Moe Green didn't look anything like Warren Beatty.

Or Bugsy Seigel himself for that matter!

I also think that besides the fact that Michael did not grow up being groomed as a Don as Sonny might have, the other Dons did not feel intimidated by the short and skinny Michael. Sonny was tall and muscular, with his temper, he was very intimidating. Vito proved throughout his Donship that he should not be reckoned with. Michael, being short, may have caused the others (including Moe Green) to be biased and underestimate him.

Nothing against short people, just a thought. I'm on the short side myself.

I do not agree with that assessment at all. Michael's physical appearance had absolutely nothing to do with the other families not feeling intimidated by him.

It had to do with the Corleones making them believe that they were very weak. They probably also underestimated Michael because in their minds he was not, like Sonny, groomed for the position. He was really looked upon as a civilian and therefore was perceived by the other families as being inexperienced for the position of Don and what he was about to deal with. They took Vito's appointing Michael as head of the family as a sign of weakness. That turned out to be a fatal mistake on their part.

His physical size had nothing to do with how they perceived him and the Corleones.

Go tell that to the 50 or so people in Philadelphia that are pushing up daisies because they didn't fear Nicky Scarfo.

Or Meyer Lansky

I was just thinking along the lines of, if Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mini Me were in the running for the head of a company, in appearance only, the company might look stronger with the person with more powerful attributes. I think that is part of the reason they chose the character of Michael to look so, so that he looks harmless and innocent when he is quite the opposite.

Also I do believe height plays a factor, studies have shown that taller entry level workers get paid more than below average height entry level workers.

Just my thoughts.

Agreed DC. While in many things "size matters," when it comes to mob bosses it doesnt. Hyman Roth had to wear elevator shoes to talk to Michael, and Phillip Tattaglia, "the pimp" wasn't exactly a candidate to play center in the NBA.

Always remember that many great politicians in history are not tall.

I think when Moe Green says "I talked to Barzini... I can make the deal and still keep my hotels" THAT lets Michael know that Moe is in bed with the Nemesis of his father.... leading to what Michael would have to eventually do... take care of the 5 families.