Can anyone clarify whether (Tony's father)
Johnny Boy Soprano was ever boss of the crime family, or did he remain a capo?

Can anyone explain precisely what was Hesh's role
when Johnny Boy was around. I presume he was never officially the consiglere?
Was he a close advisor to Johnny Boy or was the relationship relatively unofficial as seems to be the case with Tony?

Some of the books are a bit vague and I must admit I like obscure details. Any relevant links appreciated. Thanks a lot.

I don't know if they ever explicitly said whether or not Johnny Boy Soprano was boss of the family or not, but I think it's safe to say that he got as high as capo and that's it. I seem to recall Tony talking to someone (probably Melfi) and saying that his father never rose to the heights that he (Tony) did, but back in his day the mafia had it better.

As for Hesh, I don't know if they explained that one either, but I doubt that they would let a Jewish man ever officially be a consigliere, let alone a made man, in their crime family. I will look at my book later on tonight and if I find out anything otherwise, I'll post it.

Originally posted by Don Corpuzzi
I don't know if they ever explicitly said whether or not Johnny Boy Soprano was boss of the family or not, but I think it's safe to say that he got as high as capo and that's it. I seem to recall Tony talking to someone (probably Melfi) and saying that his father never rose to the heights that he (Tony) did, but back in his day the mafia had it better.

As for Hesh, I don't know if they explained that one either, but I doubt that they would let a Jewish man ever officially be a consigliere, let alone a made man, in their crime family. I will look at my book later on tonight and if I find out anything otherwise, I'll post it.

Thanks Don Corpuzzi. I had forgotten about Tony talking to Melfi about his father never reaching the same heights. I do recall Tony saying to Melfi that 'my dad was tough, he had his own crew" so that confirms him as a Capo, as you said. In which case I think Hesh's main activities were his shylocking etc. Though I think that as a good earner and friend he would probably be a close adviser to Johnny. Tony talks repeatedly about how Johnny often kept Hesh around. Always needed someone to look out for Junior I expect.

For what it's worth, the book by Allen Rucker on The Sopranos states that Johnny Boy was a capo and 'a good earner for the DiMeo family.' But it, too, is vague about Hesch. In season 1, Tony tells Uncle Junior that "the Sopranos have been waiting a long time for the chair," so I'd have to agree with you dudes that Johnny Boy never quite made it. It's never explicitly stated by Hesch (or anyone else), but I'd always gotten the impression that Hesch wanted to give the appearance of just an associate of the Sopranos without the official title of consiglieri. But he definitely acts in the capacity as one. Maybe the one exception is where Junior taxes Hesch and Tony, Hesch, Junior, and Johnny Sacks (sp?) sit down together to reason it out. I figure if Hesch were Tony's true consiglieri, it wouldn't have gone down that way.
I wish Rucker's book had been more accurate. I've already spotted more than one mistake in there (e.g., giving Tony Sirico a film credit for Godfather II ), so I'm a little wary when I consult a faulty source for information.

Rucker's book on The Sopranos is so far the only book I've seen out there about the show, so I guess we have to live with it until they come out with something else. I also picked up the book called The Psychology of the Sopranos, but it's more about the sessions between Melfi and Tony and less about the show as a whole. It's still good reading, though, especially if you have an interest in psychology (that was my minor in college).

Speaking of "psychology" and "college," I heard on the radio the other day that some college somewhere is actually going to teach a course on The Sopranos. I suppose it'll be in the area of cinematic 'art' or something. Jeez. Just think: if you get an "F," you could get whacked!

Originally posted by Snake
It's never explicitly stated by Hesch (or anyone else), but I'd always gotten the impression that Hesch wanted to give the appearance of just an associate of the Sopranos without the official title of consiglieri. But he definitely acts in the capacity as one. Maybe the one exception is where Junior taxes Hesch and Tony, Hesch, Junior, and Johnny Sacks (sp?) sit down together to reason it out. I figure if Hesch were Tony's true consiglieri, it wouldn't have gone down that way.

I always got the impression that Hesh was too loosely tied to Tony's crew and to the De Meo family, to be considered anything other than a very unofficial adviser to Tony. I was thinking in terms of Hesh having a more high profile role under Johnny Boy. But as we have established Johnny Boy was never head/boss of the family,he would never have had a formal consilgere, ruling Hesh out. Still, I would say he was Johnny Boy's
main advisor.

Under Tony's official acting leadership of the family I always understood Silvio Dante to be the consiglere. But, this is unfortunatly where many of the books/websites seem confused. Until mid way through series 2 Silvio outranks Paulie, until Paulie is bumped up to Capo. Worth emphasising at this point that from previous discussions that we seem to have agreed that Soprano's less formal chain of command, is fairly typical of a 'camorra' style family.

My feeling is that Hesh sticks around, because he feels he somehow owes it to Tony's dead father. Hesh possibly feels that Tony is less with it than Johnny was and is more likely to make blunders. I think Hesh is an important figure in his own right, (in the scene Snake speaks of) Johnny Sacks suggests that Hesh is as much a friend to the New York families as is he is to the Di Meo clan.

I think you're right on the money, WG (as usual ). And yeah, the Silvio-consiglieri thing...weird. I believe I spied that in Rucker's book as well. But from what I've seen thus far on the show, such is not the case; unless there's something in season 3 I haven't yet seen. Unfortunately, kind of a hectic weekend and I only got through season 2 (again!) and have seen only the 1st episode of season 3. But I got tomorrow free, by George!