With movies like the godfather part 1 and the books, isn't there a danger that the view of, how the Mafia really is, may be kind of unfocussed ?

Despite all the crime they do, there is still a picture left, which wants to make us believe, that the Mafia or the family is a group of honorous ppl. We all know the picture of local mobsters, who have an open ear for the poor and weak helping them out against the bad guys.
(Vito in Godfather I, helping out all the guys who ask him for help at Connie's wedding.
Vito in his early days in GF2, who helps the poor widow against the bad landlord. The landlord who is frightened to death by visiting Vito at Genco - leaving some kind of amusement to the viewer).
A created myst about the mafia, the glorious, loyal, loving family ties?

Isn't there a danger, that everyone, having the pics and "cool" mobster-reports in mind, underestimates the cruel and awfulness of their actions ?

My interest in the mafia started with the Godfather movie and I read nearly all Puzo novels about the mafia topic. Yes, there are also the awfull sides shown - but still, isn't all this material kind of creating the wrong picture of the mafia, Cosa Nostra or however it may be called?

Attracted by all this circumstances, I read a book about the Italian Sicilian Mafia, not a novel, but a scientific book (written by a Sicilian professor), which opens all the guts of the Sicilian Mafia, how they really act and what is really left about this "honor".

One sentence is describing this very well. Namely there is a report of old Mobsters in the early 20th century (around 1920), who critizises, that the old mafia had honor, the new one not.

This sentence can be heard by nearly any mobster, the old days were so honorous, but not the new ones. Fact is, that there seemed to be never something like real honor or "good will", but pure wrecklessness and crime.

I am just interested, if this is only me, who detects a kind of misled sympathy myself for something, that shouldn't be sympathised at all, because it is everything, but nothing positive.

Sorry for my poor English, I am no native speaker and hope, you do understand what I am trying to say with all this.

Greetz

(if someone is interested, the book I am speaking about is from Salvatore Lupo - The history of the mafia - I do not know, if it is available in English, but I think so).

Thats absolutely correct. Most of the gangster fiction humanizes the Mob and makes them appear as modern day Robin Hoods. Puzo, in writing "The Godfather" was no better.

When the movie was being made and it came time for Vito's death scene (in the garden) he was supposed to have said, "Life is so beautiful" just before he died. One of the local church groups protested LOUDLY that this utterance made Vito appear too "human" and they fought with the studio (and eventually won) to have this line deleted.

We all love and admire Vito for many different reasons but we forget that he made his living off the misery of others. But, hey, thats what sells books.

you are absolutely right with your interpretation of what I mean.
Though I did not limit my view to the Godfather movie/novel - it is just, that I think that there is some omnipresent sympathy for the mafia, which is not at all based on facts or something like the truth, but mainly based on novels and how the media, especially the film medias, serves us the picture of their "mafia".

And there is the danger localised, because I think, that far too many people do not want to look behind their fictional picture of, how they understand the Cosa Nostra.

I know this small mark is not too serious, but as I read all through the forums and topics, where the mafia is discussed, I mostly see this kind of sympathy, I also wear in me.

Neri,

The reasons that you and SC stated above are the exact reasons that I like The Sopranos. When watching this show it is very easy for the viewer to view these mobsters as funny and sometimes glorified. But all of a sudden a scene will fall upon us where a character such as Tony, who we may get comfortable with for several episodes, all of a sudden will cold bloodedly murder someone, or a Paulie Walnuts will violently kill an old woman for her money! While the writing will make you sit back and enjoy the characters, it will also bring you right back into the reality of what lowlife theiving murderers that these people really are! Hey, didn't we all love Joe Pesci in Goodfellas? Funny, humorous, daring......and then when he cold bloodedly shoots the kid Spider you stood there with your bottom jaw hanging, realizing that this funny guy that you were begining to like has just killed a young kid over a drink! Right back to reality. Yes, that is what they really are about.


Don Cardi

Personally I don't think that Puzo didn't show reality. He always denied all charges of gloryfying them. And he did not. He's just objective. People are different, and who says that a gangster doesn't love his family? His novel is a great realistic work, he shows us what they did, and how, and what price they paid. Only he doesn't write didactical lessons, it is our business to derive them, and the absence of direct moralization is in my opinion a sign of good taste in literature.
As to bringing us to reality - when you see how the nice college boy you liked orders the strangling of his brother-in-law and surveys it calmly, don't tell me that nothing happens to your jaw!

Thats absolutely correct. Most of the gangster fiction humanizes the Mob and makes them appear as modern day Robin Hoods. Puzo, in writing "The Godfather" was no better.

When the movie was being made and it came time for Vito's death scene (in the garden) he was supposed to have said, "Life is so beautiful" just before he died. One of the local church groups protested LOUDLY that this utterance made Vito appear too "human" and they fought with the studio (and eventually won) to have this line deleted.

We all love and admire Vito for many different reasons but we forget that he made his living off the misery of others. But, hey, thats what sells books. [/b][/quote]There is a mafioso (!) who said that phrase (line) just before he died. It was don Calogero Vizzini.

I don't think romantacising the mafia is any worse than a gunfighter or a pirate. Yes, they're bad people, but their stories are compelling, doubly so when we're routing for them.

Quite a few movies romanticize the Mafia and criminals in general. Vito was romanticized in GF. We have to remind ourselves that Vito made his living through "the utmost reasonableness--backed by murder." His main businesses, gambling and unions, were hardly victimless crimes. The big money in gambling comes not from the odds favoring the house, but from loansharking--a business of broken kneecaps or worse. And every dollar diverted to Vito from a union was a dollar diverted from a working man's pocket.
However, if I had to give one theme for the Godfather Trilogy, it's: "Crime Doesn't Pay." Look how the trilogy ended.

It's the "clever" writng of Puzo and directing of FFC that make the viewer see a character lik Vito as a "good guy." We are shown a side of Vito that refuses to deal in drugs and that makes the viewer say, oh, he's not so bad. We are shown a side of Vito that despises infidelity by a married man, and the viewer says to themsleves " see, he has morals." We are shown a side of Vito that portrays a Robinhoodesque air about him because he helps a poor old widow fight a mean landlord. Very clever writing! These are the kinds of attributes used by a writer that makes the viewer almost root for the bad guy to get away or win! But as both SC and Turnb e ll, I mean Bull have both said, this is not a really nice guy when you get down to the nitty gritty!


Don Cardi

Well, we know too good that two sequels were made that way on purpose, as a sort of disclaimer - "No-no, guys, you've got us wrong, we didn't mean that, we are so sorry, so sorry..." It was Coppola's intention to make everything end as terribly as possible, but in his wish to benefit the audience he became so bluntly didactical that the art ended there.
It was, I believe, that moralyzing spirit that finally ruined the whole franchise.
It is so obvious that Michael could never act in the way FFC made him to, just for being Michael, that some results of his good intentions look too ridiculous to be able to teach audience.
What he did with Michael makes me feel more pity and sympathy for that poor character than all Puzo's "glorifying", cuz the poor thing suffered more from bad screenplay than from all his enemies. And that, I believe, doesn't improve my morality at all!
But it's so unrealistic that it simply cannot be taken seriously as a proof of anything, except maybe FFC's degradation...
Novel is much more authentic to reality and human nature, and therefore is able to teach us more real lessons, though they are not so direct and primitive.
What is the most important, it makes us start thinking, and then it's deep meaning and complexity reveals itself to us. Thinking of FFC's sequels is prohibited - it reveals more and more goofs each time.
When you do such a thing as this movie, you must not do it to "glorify", or "not to glorify". It gets you nowhere. You must only live a life with them, without trying to stretch it on commonplace cliche of any kind, even the most profitable. Everything artifical is untrue, by definition.
I believe, I seem desperate... :rolleyes:

Superb analysis, DC! And, for the record:
Vito didn't oppose drugs because he was concerned about protecting the community from the horrors of addiction. He was against drugs on self-interest: he saw (correctly as it turned out) that "drugs will be the ruination of us all." Drugs also constituted a threat to his regular businesses--the cops and politicians who were supportive of his gambling/unions rackets wouldn't go along with him on drugs.

Thank you TB!

We even see glorification with real life mobsters. Especially back in the 80's when John Gotti was dodging accusations, charges, convictions, etc. from the governement, and the media hyped him, sort of making him "the people's man." They basically portrayed him as the poor italian who was getting picked on by the governement! If you remember when he beat one of his last court cases, the people outside the courts CHEERED as he walked down the steps, and the residents of Howard Beach threw him a victory party in the streets! Talk to almost any resident of Howard Beach and they will tell you that John Gotti was a hero in that community and that he got a bum rap!!! Talk about glorifying a gangster! Yes, in the scope of things in regards to "underworld standards" Gotti was a man's man, one of the only ones who did his time like a man and never turning rat as most of the other mobsters have done. So in viewing this from within "the life" yes, he is someone to be admired for what he did. But from the view of a legitimate civilian, there is nothing that should ever be glorified, for he was what he was. While it is obvious that I myself have a Gotti avatar, and a Gotti quote as my signature, in no way do I percieve this guy as a hero. We post on these boards and are interested in the lives of mobsters, be it fictional, non-fictional, or what have you, but it is an interest for us, and not to glorify these people. I know that speaking for myself, my interest lies in this sort of genre because of the people that I grew up around, and because of my curiosity of what makes someone choose the path to this sort of a life. So I think that we want to read books, watch movies, etc. in order to get into the minds of some of these people to see what made or makes them tick. There is no question that some of these mobsters are very intruiging, as I have always been intriuged by the Luciano's, Lansky's and Bugsy's of the underworld, as I thought it very interesting that these guys had a knack for the business world, a knack for making money,but yet chose to take the "easy" path in life to acheive and get whatever they wanted.

Read about them, yes. Watch them on the screen, yes. Talk about them, yes. Show interest in them, yes. Glorify them, never!

Don Cardi

Good Point DC.

Everyone has the right idea. The mafia is not a glamorus profession, nor anyhting like what the movies, books and TV shows make it out to be. While you might be on top for a little while, in the longh run, you will get it all back and then some. People shopuld be smart enough to realize A) thats the movies this is real life and B)you can "get into" the mafia beacuse you think its cool and you have seen a lot of films about mobsters :rolleyes: