Another thread I started regarding Vincent Mancini, inspired me to ask this?

Although I realize that top factors in the decline of the mafia we knew in GF, were not only the change of times, but the Rico (sp) Act as well as other factors I'm sure I don't know about.

However, did real life mafia ever get careless in who they chose to be Don? Was it automatically passed down to a son? In other words, were there "Vincent/Sonny" type Dons that were either not really qualified or lacked a certain talent or trait, but only because of no other option got the position. If so, could this have been in any way, although not a major, but a contributing factor to the demise of the mafia as we once knew it?

TIS

Well, the sad truth on the Mafia is that there weren't really any dons as clever and powerful as Vito Corleone; you shouldn't rate real life ones with him. Some of the old school dons were very good choices, but as the years passed, most gangsters were like Sonny and Vinny: headstrong, careless, possibly bad tempered. It probably didn't lead to the downfall as much as Rico laws, but it certainly would have exposed the mafia a lot more, and probably would have affected it.

As stupid as this may sound, I wish there were men like Don Corleone nowadays, because maybe Mario Puzo was making the implication of the IMPORTANCE of wisdom, sensitivity, and respect of Vito Corleone. Maybe if there were mafia leaders like him, the mob would still be in full effect.


well,..not that I would LIKE that a lot. But y'know. Just for the entertainemnt value of it.

that's a great topic!

I believe the most important reason to the downfall of the Mafia is that the Dons started to earn so many power that the main authorities started to really worry about them, and then the law almost finished the mob.

well pacino priness, I don't think it sounds so stupid, because the Mafia Dons were all respectful with the civilians. today we have robbers that kill anyone for no reason, while the mobsters just killed other mobsters or someone who messed with them. I'm not saying this is right, but between these two kinds of "bad guys", I'd rather the mobsters.

Some Dons, like Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello and Tony Accardo, were as effective as Vito Corleone. Most others weren't. Many made fatal mistakes. Even Gambino erred when he appointed Paul Castellano as his successor, instead of Neil Dellacroce.
RICO and drugs hastened the demise of the Mafia. But larger trends were at work, namely the complete assimilation of Italian-Americans, which made a Mafia career irrelevant to the best and brightest.

I am curious as to why paul castellano was a bad choice?He was a business man,that does not sit well w/the mafia I know. He made over 500million
a year for the gambinos,dellecroce was not smart
enough to run a family,paul was greedy and at the
same time he was fair w/ the other factions,the
only reason paul was killed and this reason only,
GOTTI had to kill him before paul killed the entire crew except for gravanno, paul killed roy demeo and he was gonna do the same to the ravenite group,paul was a good choice,in my eyes,
GOTTI screwed up by making his son jr.a boss also
his half wit brother peter a don.

Castellano had many flaws. Among them:
--He was a near-total recluse, who almost never left his mansion in Staten Island to mingle with the troops, which was taken as a sign of arrogance. His distance from the troops meant that he was unable to monitor the drug-dealing of Angelo (Quack-Quack) Ruggiero and others, which eventually led to his RICO indictment.
--He made deals with other families (Colombos, Genoveses) and with the Westies, a violent, drug-addled Irish mob, that members of his own family though were disadvantageous to them.
--He was greedy and selfish, squeezing every last dollar out of his subordinates and involving himself in minutia of mob operations that should hever have attracted the attention of a Don.
--He cavorted openly with his Colombian maid, Gloria Olarte, under the same roof where his wife and daughter lived. This violated a major mob no-no: mobsters can have mistresses, but they are supposed to "honor" their wives and keep their homes "sacred."
--When Neil Dellacroce died, Castellano not only didn't attend the funeral, he didn't attend the wake. This was counted as major disrespect of a highly respected street boss.
--The Feds caught Castellano in surveillance tapes bad-mouthing other Dons, which pissed them off.
--After Dellacroce died, Castellano announced that Tommy Bilotti, a stammering, bat-wielding thug, would be his new underboss. Bilotti's only qualification was that he had been Big Paul's loyal chauffeur.

Gotti whacked Castellano mainly out of self-interest: Castellano announced that he was disbanding Dellacroce's crews (which included Gotti and his people). Gotti figured, perhaps correctly, that he was living on borrowed time at that point. Kill or be killed, or so it seemed. But the other Gambinos went along with Gotti because they hated Castellano for the reasons cited above. The other mob families went along because they were afraid that Castellano might have ratted them out to the Feds in order to avoid jail time, and thus be able to spend his last years with his beloved Gloria Olarte. They also thought that, with Bilotti next in line, disaster would occur sooner rather than later.

I visited my cousin in the city yesterday, and his hotel if right outside of the resturant where Castellano bought it. My cousin also said that the resturant is a place where the new jersey mob guys and what not like to go to eat quite often. It was pretty cool.

Didnt Castellano also have or want a penial implant?
When you're in the mafia and you get a implant in your penis, you've probably already lost all the respect of 90% of your guys. If there was any respect for him in the first place.

I read that he did have a penile implant. I guess he wanted to be a stand-up kind of a guy. :rolleyes:

Kurens and O'Brien disclosed this fact in their book, "Boss of Bosses," but they got the info through surveillance and other surreptitious means. Some reviewers criticized them for revealing this fact, which they considered irrelevant to Castellano's downfall. It's not clear that "Big" Paul let anyone else know it--other than the designated recipient, Gloria Olarte.
Hey, let's face it: a Mafia boss needs to be prepared--he's constantly facing stiff competition. :rolleyes:

all good points above t.b.
The fact that paul did not attend mr.neils'
wake was a major mistake,I do not think that
it was his job to baby-sit angelo,that was his
uncles job or gottis which-ever.
with-out ruggerio talking on the phone
paul was in the clear on the drug thing.
paul was greedy,at least gotti thought so,
the fact still remains he was a major
earner for the gambinos,as far as being a
loner or a recluse if more powers to be were
like that,more dons would last longer,
don carlo was not one to mingle w/ the
hired help,thats what the capos and
underboss are for.
tommy b. was old school but loyal,dumb as
a rock,he would never have made a good don
but was gotti any better?
paul was making money on his own,its the
job of the factions capos to make their
own deals,their own money.
roy demeo made large amounts of money for
paul,paul paid him well then killed him.
gaggi was paid well also,the only reason
paul used the westies was they had taken
the gambinos largest shy and bookie racket
and used it to their advantage,gotti used
the westies at the urging of sammy,they
did a number on a irish union official
in exchange for more work.
as far as pauls xtra sexual activities i
do not see what the problem is,as far as
morals go,whats worse,cheating on your wife
downstairs or killing over 200 people which
i figure is what he had done in his tenure
as a don,both are sins and the mafia code
of honer pretty much does not exist anymore
nor did it then. just my opinion

THe rise of other, more efficient, crime organizations was the downfall of the mafia, along with improvements in DNA samples, technology etc.

The Japanese, Chinese, and Russians are still on the rise. The Latin Kings and some black organizations rake in dough as well. Back in teh day, the mafia had to worry about the Irish, legal tycoons, and some really small organizations.

Turnbull? Who is Tony Accardo? What Family and city did he rule?

And I agree that Paul was a better choice than Neil. Neil was in so much trouble that he probably would have ended up behind bars shortly after his takeover. And Carlo knew that.

Vito Corleone was a mixture of many Dons: labeled after Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello, Joe Profaci, and Joseph Bonanno

One of the reasons Gambino didn't choose Dellacroce was that Neil was still in prison, serving a term for income tax evasion. He got nailed after losing $30k or $60k in a casino in Puerto Rico even though he claimed an income of only $10k/year at the time. That's how easy it is to convict mobsters of tax evasion. Gambino may have figured that, once Neil got out, the Feds would be watching him closely. Castellano was mostly legit, having a large wholesale meat business as his cover. But, as we saw, the Feds were watching him closely anyway.
Vito Corleone has a bit of Salvatore Maranzano in him (victor in a war in which his chief rival was killed while chewing bread in a restaurant); something of Joe Profaci (biggest olive oil importer in America); something of Joe Bonanno (one underboss remained loyal to his son, one betrayed him); a big of Charlie Luciano (Jewish gangster was close associate). But he most resembles Frank Costello (gambling and unions, had all the judges in New York, retired after being shot).

Well I may not be as knowledgeable as Turnbull but this may help to answer the above question.

Tony Accardo was the head of the Chicago outfit(as it was called) it didn't have a name like the new york families did persay.

it's been rumored that Tony "Joe Batters" Accardo. Was one of the 4 hitmen in the 1929 St Valentines Day Massacre.

He aquired the nickname "Joe Batters" by Al Capone, cause he(being tony accardo) was so good at yeilding a baseball bat.

I hope that helps. Turnbull would no doubt be able to add a lot more info, and more than likely correct me as well.

You're right about Accardo, Iceman. He was probably the most powerful post-Capone leader of the Chicago Outfit. In fact, he got his start as one of Al's bodyguards.
But, I don't think he was one of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre gunmen. No one knows all their identities for sure. Nearly everyone is agreed one one shooter: Fred "Killer" Burke, one of Capone's favorite hired guns (and his golfing buddy, too). Lawrence Bergreen, Capone's most recent biographer, says the shooters were Burke, Albert Anselmi, John Scalise and Patsy Lolordo. (Anselmi and Scalise were later baseball-batted by Capone for betraying him on another matter).
Not among the shooters was Vincent Gebaldi, aka Machine Gun Jack McGurn, who planned the massacre in retaliation for having been lured to a phone booth and then shot and nearly killed by Pete and Frank Gusenberg, Bugs Moran's top gunsels. McGurn holed up in the Lexington Hotel with his mistress, Louise Rolfe (known as "the Blond Alibi"), never leaving his room and constantly calling the hotel desk, to establish that he was there during the shooting. Capone was at his winter place in Miami, and made a point of calling on the DA at the very moment of the shooting.