hairy no way im trying to argue with you over this, your a great poster. I just think its a good subject. do you agree the Genovese open there books in 1974. George barone said fat tony brought him in I forgot who he said also was there and you have fish cafaro fat tonys right hand say he was brought in 1974. casso infront of the senate said he was inducted in 1974 and vic amuso not till 77. when I listend to massino testimony he says 1975 him sonny black where hijacking trucks they ask him about sonny black massino says a wiseguy, made man. I wish they would just print it out the sound is bad.i want to read the mirra files soon. and back to miichael franses why would the guy lie? he said it was dibella who did the ceremony. I mean Halloween not hard to forget. I don't like Michael but he seems to tell the truth even in front of the senate committee, he forgets about murders thou. I always wonder if tommy dibella (old Colombo boss) is related to the boxing promoter from Brooklyn guys big time dibella ent. maybe grand kid or great nephew. hairy no other rats claim to have been inducted 1975. could you imagine Sammy gravano kissing some 24yr olds ass or dan marino or the corrozo's. if he was made guy before all them. I think I read in scarpas file allie boy was made in 1977 the bumped to capo 1979. carmines son.