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Why Was Michael Never Suspected? #997063
09/19/20 07:49 PM
09/19/20 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 67,406
The Villa Quatro
Irishman12 Offline OP
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Irishman12  Offline OP
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I believe this has been asked before but I can't find the answer. When the heads of the 5 families are killed during the baptism scene, why does no one suspect Michael? All of the heads of the families are killed yet the Corleone's all survive. Nobody thinks this is suspicious?

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997065
09/19/20 07:52 PM
09/19/20 07:52 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Michael probably was suspected by both law enforcement and the underworld. Remember that at the Senate hearing Michael was asked if he orchestrated the Dons' murders.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: olivant] #997067
09/19/20 10:53 PM
09/19/20 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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AZ
Originally Posted by olivant
Michael probably was suspected by both law enforcement and the underworld. Remember that at the Senate hearing Michael was asked if he orchestrated the Dons' murders.

Yes, I'm sure they did. He had an airtight alibi, though, and I doubt the police would have been able to even question him.

On the other hand, Connie suspected him. wink


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997079
09/20/20 08:39 AM
09/20/20 08:39 AM
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Lou_Para Offline
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One question I've always had about the "Baptism Murders" is why Moe Greene is always included as one of the heads of the 5 Families who got killed.. Cuneo, Stracci, Barzini, and Tattaglia,sure. But why Moe?
He was basically a front man for the Casino, and would only have had a relationship with Roth and Barzini. By no means that would I consider him a Family head. In fact,he wasn't even head of his own casino. Thoughts anyone?

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Lou_Para] #997080
09/20/20 11:17 AM
09/20/20 11:17 AM
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted by Lou_Para
One question I've always had about the "Baptism Murders" is why Moe Greene is always included as one of the heads of the 5 Families who got killed.. Cuneo, Stracci, Barzini, and Tattaglia,sure. But why Moe?
He was basically a front man for the Casino, and would only have had a relationship with Roth and Barzini. By no means that would I consider him a Family head. In fact,he wasn't even head of his own casino. Thoughts anyone?


He wasn't included. HIs murder was foreshadowed by the Vegas meeting with Michael. He insulted the Corleones with his treatment of Fredo and his alliance with Barzini.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: olivant] #997082
09/20/20 02:22 PM
09/20/20 02:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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FFC threw in his murder along with the others to add drama. In the novel, he's killed well before the day when Michael settles all family accounts.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997084
09/20/20 02:59 PM
09/20/20 02:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
Moe slapped around Freddie and stole from the Corleones. He also insulted Michael by not selling to them, and shouting out the "cheerleader" remark. He had to go.


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Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997101
09/20/20 07:07 PM
09/20/20 07:07 PM
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Lou_Para Offline
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i only ask because if you lookup or Google "Godfather Baptism Murders" the list always includes Barz ,Tatt ,Stracci, Cuneo, and Moe. In the "murder montage" during the Baptism scene.,Moe is shown getting hit.
Also during the hearing,Mike is asked about killing the heads of the 5 Families..
Going strictly by the movie,who would be the head of the 5th Family?

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Lou_Para] #997106
09/20/20 10:59 PM
09/20/20 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Lou_Para

Going strictly by the movie,who would be the head of the 5th Family?

Lou, that question was a source of endless discussion years ago. "The Five Families" is a phrase that's often mentioned in the novel, too. Some speculated that there was another NYC family that was never mentioned, some said (going by the novel only) that the fifth was the Bocchiccios. All we know from the movie is that the Five Families were Corleone, Tattaglia, Barzini, Cuneo and Stracchi. So, why did the Corleones refer to the "Five Families"? My guess is that it was a generic phrase they used to describe the NYC families, including theirs, rather than saying, "all the other families," or "we and the other families," or "the Commission" (which is never used either in the film or the novel).


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997109
09/20/20 11:52 PM
09/20/20 11:52 PM
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Lou_Para Offline
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Turnbull, I always put the fifth Family in the same file as the"Michael Corleone says hello" quote,or God forbid, the "who opened the drapes" controversy (rumor has it there are ancient stone tablets with that question on them).
I thought I might have missed something. Thanks for your feedback,and let me say that your knowledge of all things Godfather is freakin' amazing,
BTW, among all of the things left out in the movie,and there were many,the lack of a good backstory on the Bocchiccios was a sad omission.But it could have been worse. At least we weren't subjected to the details of the "lady parts" surgery.or the whole Johnny/Nino snoozefest.

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Turnbull] #997110
09/21/20 12:05 AM
09/21/20 12:05 AM
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Australia
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Lana Offline
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Australia
Originally Posted by Turnbull
FFC threw in his murder along with the others to add drama. In the novel, he's killed well before the day when Michael settles all family accounts.
Wouldn't killing Moe Greene “well before the day when Michael settles all family accounts” have let the cat out of the bag? at least cast doubt that the Corleones were not done that they are not weak and crumbling like everyone thought

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Lou_Para] #997111
09/21/20 02:24 AM
09/21/20 02:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Lou_Para

BTW, among all of the things left out in the movie,and there were many,the lack of a good backstory on the Bocchiccios was a sad omission.But it could have been worse. At least we weren't subjected to the details of the "lady parts" surgery.or the whole Johnny/Nino snoozefest.

Agree all the way, Lou. The Bocchiccios were the best of several great backstories in the novel. But, thank heaven we didn't get Lucy's surgery and Nino. I think Puzo included that in the novel because a) some lady friend or relative had had that surgery and he couldn't resist telling us about it in endless detail; and b) he spent a lot of time in Hollywood and couldn't resist telling us about it in endless detail, either. The Hollywood BS wrecks "The Last Don"; one of the reasons that the movie "Last Don" is so much better than the novel is that it omits the Hollywood crap.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997128
09/21/20 08:59 PM
09/21/20 08:59 PM
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Evita Offline
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Everyone obliged by being conveniently out in the open, for their easy killings
He had talked to Barzini No doubt he had to go but cat out of the bag with his well before killing

I think only Barzini and Tattaglia were killed, in the novel Michael was the only one left standing in the movie No doubt everyone knew Church attendance airtight alibi or not Dons don't personally murder except Vito's of Don Ciccio but it was strictly personal!

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Evita] #997135
09/22/20 12:17 AM
09/22/20 12:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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No. Virginia
Originally Posted by Evita
Everyone obliged by being conveniently out in the open, for their easy killings


There's a little thing in the novel, that just after the executions several opposing capos switched sides and joined the Corleones. I've assumed that this meant they had been turned beforehand, and possibly led their bosses to slaughter.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997145
09/22/20 09:04 AM
09/22/20 09:04 AM
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Capri Offline
Capo
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Capo
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everyone knew Read the papers Read the papers

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: mustachepete] #997190
09/24/20 12:14 AM
09/24/20 12:14 AM
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Australia
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Lana Offline
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
Originally Posted by Evita
Everyone obliged by being conveniently out in the open, for their easy killings
There's a little thing in the novel, that just after the executions several opposing capos switched sides and joined the Corleones. I've assumed that this meant they had been turned beforehand, and possibly led their bosses to slaughter
I doubt the “opposing capos” would have been in the know of “their bosses slaughter beforehand”

I don't think anyone outside of Vito and Michael knew anything about the baptism murders, by design, even Tom was kept out of the loop
Nobody was let in on, what Vito and Michael were planning until their need to know after the traitor [Tessio] revealed himself

Re: Why Was Michael Never Suspected? [Re: Irishman12] #997606
10/04/20 09:17 AM
10/04/20 09:17 AM
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Posts: 2,727
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Vito and Michael were orchestrating Barzini and Tattaglia's murders. The rest were Michael's doing. The fifth family is the Bocchiccios. In the book the Corleones are a sixth and smallest New York family, but were strong politically with Vitos connections in both the legitimate world and the underworld. TurnBull is right with how the movie made it seem like Corleone family was one of the Five Families. Michael had an airtight alibi, Connie knew what her brother had done. The members of the other families that switched over to the Corleones after the killings knew where the power lies and would need protection now. I do believe that a couple gave info to the Corleones on their bosses habits, Cuneo is the only one that comes to mind. Tattaglia was a creature of habit. Barzini was in and out of court, so they just waited, Stracci may have had someone tipped off the Corleones. The book and movie are different and creates confusion. In the book only Barzini and Tattaglia are killed.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green

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