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Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Evita] #993474
07/04/20 10:57 PM
07/04/20 10:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
...headstrong, talking loud, saying styupid things...


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Turnbull] #993475
07/05/20 12:23 AM
07/05/20 12:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
L
Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
L
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
Was it stupid?! though Michael undoubtedly goaded Greene still...

“Mike! You don't come to Las Vegas and talk to a man like Moe Greene like that!”

Greene: Yeah Let's talk business, Mike
1. First of all, you're all done
2. The Corleone Family don't even have that kind of muscle anymore
3. The Godfather's sick, right?
4. You're getting chased out of New York by Barzini and the other Families

What do you think is going on here? You think you can come to my hotel and take over? I talked to Barzini I can make a deal with him and still keep my hotel

Vito [Corleones] had no idea of Fredo's lifestyle! in Vegas
The Corleones knew that Greene had slapped Fredo around in public yet didn't bother to find out why Greene straightened Fredo a Corleone out?

I thought Vito kept tabs on everyone and everything [uh-oh before slipping]
Michael was blindsided that business was suffering! because of Fredo's philandering not because of Greene's skimming off the top

Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Lana] #993476
07/05/20 02:38 AM
07/05/20 02:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Originally Posted by Lana



I thought Vito kept tabs on everyone and everything [uh-oh before slipping

From the novel:
"They [Tom and MIchael] looked at each other. This was perhaps the real reason the Don was displeased with Freddie. The Don was straightlaced about sex. He would consider such cavorting by his son Freddie, two girls at a time, as degeneracy."

Quote
Michael was blindsided that business was suffering! because of Fredo's philandering not because of Greene's skimming off the top


Fredo's banging cocktail waitresses two at a time actually saved Moe money--he complained that "the players couldn't get a [free] drink at the tables." Moe was based on Bugsy Siegel. Bugsy was a poor businessman who spent nearly six times more than the original estimate to build the Flamingo Hotel in Vegas. He opened it before the guest rooms were finished. The high rollers came early on opening night and cleaned out his casino, then left for the sleeping rooms at the other hotels in town. The Flamingo's losses were what caused Bugsy Siegel to be assassinated--"someone put a bullet through his eye."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Turnbull] #993510
07/06/20 01:00 AM
07/06/20 01:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
L
Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
L
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
Thanks Turnbull as always I appreciate your extra tidbits

What was Moe Greene's gripe?
If “Fredo's banging cocktail waitresses two at a time actually saved Moe money” then what was Greene's complaint?

Why did Greene use "the players couldn't get a [free] drink at the tables." as an excuse to slap Fredo around in public?
Greene: I gotta business to run. I gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right

My [mis?] understanding, Greene made out the casino was losing money because of Fredo's philandering not because of Greene's skimming off the top

Wikipedia – Bugsy Siegel
Quote
Extracts:
The day after Siegel's murder [David Berman and his Las Vegas mob associates, Sedway and Gus Greenbaum] Michael Corleone! walked into the Flamingo and took over operation of the hotel and casino

Siegel [has] a memorial plaque in the Bialystoker Synagogue and a memorial outside the wedding chapel at the Flamingo
No wonder Roth was livid that there isn't even a plaque or a signpost or a statue [memorial] of Moe Greene in that town! in Las Vegas, the city Greene invented

“Vito was “straightlaced about sex” and “would consider such cavorting by his son Freddie, two girls at a time, as degeneracy." Vito also knew Sonny had goumars
Vito was “displeased” but did nothing, yet Vito is the family man! Go Figure!!

Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Lana] #993513
07/06/20 02:00 AM
07/06/20 02:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
I think that, behind all that bluster, Moe was scared because he knew the bill for the Corleones' big chunk of money that they gave him to finish his hotel was coming due. He probably slapped Fredo around because he could--he was given to "murderous rages" [novel] and it probably pleased him that he could humiliate the son of the great Vito Corleone in public. That, too, was a bill coming due, and he tried to rationalize it by claiming he had to "kick asses to make it run right."

There is a plaque of Siegel at the site of the old Flamingo Hotel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2zOhastXNA


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Turnbull] #993566
07/08/20 12:10 AM
07/08/20 12:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
L
Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
L
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
Makes sense! Turnbull “pleased him [Greene] that he could humiliate the son of the great Vito Corleone in public” and did

Greene thought the Corleones were washed up Hence Greene could slap a Corleone around in public, insult another Corleone and still keep the Hotel

Don't mean to be pedantic!
What confuses me - the way Greene breezed in with a swagger, full of “confidence and disdain of the Corleones” “hey Mike, hello fellas” and offering “everything you want” - was “Moe scared? behind all that bluster”

Michael undoubtedly goaded Greene and succeeded ["murderous rages"] with his “Corleone Family wants to buy you out”
Greene promptly loses his temper and reveals “I talked to Barzini I can make a deal with him and still keep my hotel

It seems to me whilst Greene figured Michael's visit was an attempt to collect on the IOU [though Greene seemed to think indignantly his 'favour' of taking Fredo in, when the Corleones were having a bad time, squares the deal and he owes nothing] Greene seemed confident he was prepared and invulnerable with Barzini 'guarding' Greene and his hotel

Greene was slipping! Someone was able to just walk into the massage room and “put a bullet through his eye” unless the masseur was the same guy as Sonny's Causeway toll-collector!

Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Lana] #993688
07/11/20 09:25 PM
07/11/20 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
E
Evita Offline
Underboss
Evita  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
Originally Posted by Lana
“Vito was “straightlaced about sex” and “would consider such cavorting by his son Freddie, two girls at a time, as degeneracy." Vito also knew Sonny had goumars
Vito was “displeased” but did nothing, yet Vito is the family man! Go Figure!!

I think it is fleshed out in the book that he was dismissive of Fredo something like why? Mama can do the cooking when Tom asked should they bring the only son home after Sonny's death and Michael in hiding

Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Evita] #993740
07/12/20 11:19 PM
07/12/20 11:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,501
AZ
Originally Posted by Evita
Originally Posted by Lana
“Vito was “straightlaced about sex” and “would consider such cavorting by his son Freddie, two girls at a time, as degeneracy." Vito also knew Sonny had goumars
Vito was “displeased” but did nothing, yet Vito is the family man! Go Figure!!

I think it is fleshed out in the book that he was dismissive of Fredo something like why? Mama can do the cooking when Tom asked should they bring the only son home after Sonny's death and Michael in hiding

I think Vito was an "ethical relativist." Though he was "straightlaced," he recognized that it was in men's nature to philander. That was ok, as long as they remained "good family men." The revealing passage in the novel comes at Connie's wedding, when Vito counsels Johnny Fontaine:

Johnny says he can't marry his first wife again: "Beautiful broads run after me and I never could resist them."
Vito, exasperated, replies, "I didn't tell you to get married again. Do what you want. Who says you can't see [your children] every day? Who says you can't live in the same house? Who says you can't live your live exactly as you want to live it?" [emphasis added.]

I think Fredo banging cocktail waitresses two at a time crossed Vito's "ethical relativist" boundary. His remark about "Mama can cook our meals" meant that he thought Fredo was unmanly--not only because of sexual excess, but probably because he let Moe slap him around and because he was apprenticing as a hotel manager instead of being involved with the family business--possibly even for failing to prevent Vito from being shot and having a nervous breakdown afterward.

.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Turnbull] #1032639
04/09/22 12:02 AM
04/09/22 12:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
L
Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
L
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
The above was discussed further in Vito and Fredo

Poor Fredo
Greene angrily jerked his arm away from Fredo just before Fredo's “Wait a minute, Moe -- Moe, I got an idea”
Then Fredo taking sides against the family
Quote
Tom -- Tom, you're the Consiglieri and you can talk to the Don -- you can explain...[explain what?!]

Tom quickly shutting Fredo down
Quote
Just a minute now -- the Don is semi-retired and Mike is in charge of the Family business now. If you have anything to say, say it to Michael
Greene storms out

Re: Moe Greene meeting question [Re: Lana] #1032664
04/09/22 07:19 PM
04/09/22 07:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
E
Evita Offline
Underboss
Evita  Offline
E
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
Good question explain what?!
He was pushed around by everyone however banging cocktail waitresses two at a time! instead of learning the casino business
He ain't no Opera singer

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